Taking the pursuit of holiness too far.
Raise your hand if you have ever exceeded the speed limit and felt guilty about it. Or if you’ve ever asked God for forgiveness because the cashier gave you back too much change, and you totally knew it but didn’t say anything about it. Or if you have ever worried over the mental brainteaser “When does it become lust?”
(Possible answers to that last one include A: The moment the thought enters your head; B: When you choose to return to that thought or dwell on it; C: When you take a second, lingering look at that Megan Fox* photo; D: Right this moment, jerk, because now I’m imagining Megan Fox.)
* Female readers: feel free to substitute the male celebrity equivalent for Megan Fox.
At various times in my Christian life—by which I mean “on the way home from youth camp”—I have become fixated on personal holiness. “Be holy because I am holy.” Be in the world, but not of the world. And what most often happens is I get caught up avoiding some specific temptation—lust, greed, watching “90210”—and I waste a lot of spiritual energy trying to steer clear of this sin. Looking back, I wonder if maybe it would have been a better idea to spend that energy and prayer in the pursuit of something positive. For instance, becoming a more gracious person.
An example: I’ve heard Bible teachers tell men they should never look at Renaissance art because of the female (and male) nudity. Or tell husbands to avoid friendly, casual, interpersonal communication with other women even if it means being rude. Why? Because anything that might come across as normal or, you know, human could apparently lead to extramarital hanky-panky, I guess. Don’t give sin a foothold, etc. This is a problem. What happens when our pursuit of personal holiness becomes so self-interested that it loses sight of what followers of Jesus really ought to be doing? What happens when we focus on ourselves so much we forget to love God and love people?
Serious commentary: END.
To help you avoid these pharisaical pitfalls, I will now offer you some examples of well-meaning Christians who became too focused on personal holiness. All of these examples have been canonized as Christian saints. (Disclosure: yes, there is a reason I am interested in saints.)
These folks, in my opinion, took personal holiness to unhealthy extremes.
Your pursuit of holiness has gone too far when…
You remain chaste even after your wedding night.
In the seventh century, St. Bertilia married the love of her life. Then she and the groom took vows of chastity and remained virgins until they died. Presumably to make a long, uncomfortable point about self-sacrifice. Point taken. True love waits, and waits.
You abstain from all food and drink except communion.
That’s what St. Catherine of Siena did for long periods in the 14th century. This mortification of the flesh allowed her to avoid foul human temptations like, you know, daily sustenance. She also denied herself sleep. You know what happens when you don’t sleep, don’t eat, and only drink Eucharistic wine? Let’s just say St. Catherine should have been the patron saint of the hungover.
You cut out your own eyes to escape admiration.
That’s what St. Lucy did. As the story goes, she had a particular suitor who wouldn’t leave her alone. Dude kept going on an on about how much he admired her beautiful eyes. But Lucy, wishing to remain virginal and avoid the sin of pride—two birds, one stone!—put a stop to the man’s admiration by plucking out her own eyes. She had them delivered to the suitor. (Maybe God approved of this wee-bit-dramatic gesture, because he miraculously restored Lucy’s eyeball-less sight.)
You pray for ugliness to avoid temptation.
St. Wilgefortis was an attractive young Portuguese princess who took a vow of virginity. But, lo, her father wanted her to marry the king of Sicily. Marriage tends to complicate virginity vows—not talking to you, St. Bertilia—so Wilgefortis asked God for a special favor: to make her ugly. God answered her prayer by blessing her with a holy mustache and beard. When the foreign king backed out of the wedding (guess he couldn’t handle the prickly kisses), Wilgy’s angry father had her killed.
You live naked in the desert.
You might think nudity is always a bad thing when it comes to holiness. But what if you live in isolation in the desert? And what if exposure to the baking sun and biting flies is a way to deny the flesh? Then you might do what St. Mary of Egypt did. Which is: live naked in the desert, so long as you grow your hair long enough that you can arrange it, Garden of Eden-style, to cover up the naughty bits.
You refuse to wear shoes, and demand others to do the same.
Another way to “put to death the misdeeds of the body” is to stop protecting your feet from thorns and sharp rocks, which is why St. Teresa of Avila, in the 16th century, decided shoes indicated an embarassing lack of discipline among nuns. So she started a whole nuns-should-be-barefoot campaign. (Possible picket sign: “Saving souls by shunning soles.”) It caused a big schism amid the Carmelite community, dividing the shoe-wearing nuns from the shoeless. The nasty results included public lashings, imprisonment, and some really sick calluses.
You disrupt dinner by resurrecting the main course.
St. Nicholas of Tolentino practiced personal penance by refusing to eat meat. Once he was mistakenly served chicken. Horrified, Nick made the sign of the cross over the roasted bird. It came back to life and flew away through the window. Good thing the dish wasn’t wild boar. Or swordfish.
Let these saintly examples be a lesson to you. Sure, doing weird stuff may give you the appearance of holiness. And yeah, if you’re super-holy you’ll get churches named after you and people will be healed at your gravesite and all that stuff. But will you be more like Jesus?
Hard to say. Except I’m pretty sure Jesus wasn’t a eyeless, shoeless, bird-resurrecting, vegetarian nudist who only ate at Passover.
He did have a beard, though.
(For more awesomeness from Jason, make sure you check out his site, jasonboyett.com or www.pocketguidesite.com)
Oh...my...lanta!! I am reading this at almost 5am and my mother has had to BEG me to stop laughing so loud. This was a great one!
ReplyDeleteLuckily I'm not one to deny myself the pleasures of daily life, so I think I can stay clear of this..
ReplyDelete(And Jon, don't want to be nitpicky, but I'm going to anyway: "craved" in your introductory paragraph should be "carved", I think).
very funny...is the sight returning to the eyeless girl real? CrAZINESS!
ReplyDeletealso I find it interesting that all but one of these were women...maybe we are more aware?
not sure what it is but I feel some significance here. :)
I guess the question would be, where do we draw that fine line?
ReplyDeleteReal holiness is not about becoming obsessed with religion, religious thoughts, pleasing God, etc. It is about becoming a whole human being, who simply, naturally, loves God, neighbor, and self. All the other behaviors described are pathological and in no way make a person "holy." Quite to the contrary.
ReplyDeleteVery cool...liked his post a lot uh oh my list of favories is growing.
ReplyDeleteHeard you on Christ Fabry Live and liked what I heard making you a FAVORITE and recommended you to others on my blog :)
Ahh! I’m one of those people that you mentioned at the beginning of the post!
ReplyDeleteA couple months ago, I was at the grocery store and bought two very similar looking items in packaging and color. One was 20 cents more than the other. As I was getting into the car, I looked down at the receipt and saw that the cashier scanned the less expensive one twice instead of scanning each item separately. I was prepared to go back in but the store was very crowded and I needed to be getting home. I felt so bad! As in, put a dark cloud over my day bad. And clearly, I still recall the incident vividly today, so it left a mark on me.
Can I just say that I don't get the Megan Fox appeal? Yeah, I'm a girl, but I can still appreciate female beauty - she just seems terribly airbrushed, even when she isn't. Just don't get it.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI think it's her name. Megan Fox. See? That sounds foxy already, even if you don't know what she looks like.
It would be the same for a girl named Jessica Pretty. Or a guy named Leon Handsome.
So feel free to substitute Leon Handsome as an object of lust.
I like this post. And its interesting to think that for a lot of the religious people of Jesus day, Jesus was himself really unholy. He hung out with people who were the most 'unholy' people you could think of. Jesus didn't care about that he cared about people.
ReplyDeleteLook, Jesus covered this. It's the condition of your heart that matters. His reply to overly-sensitive kosher restrictions was "It's what is inside that makes a man unclean, not what he eats" (I must be misquoting it because my syntax isn't like King James'). Having to ask the point at which "lust" becomes evil-lust is a hint that you need to look deeply and honestly at your own motivations. You know what lust is. You know what's really running through your mind, how your body may be reacting, etc. Compare the two. Integrity is giving up on the self-deception of what you hope you're desiring, and facing what you are in fact desiring.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, in my opinion Megan Fox is too thin to be that attractive to me.
love this post.
ReplyDeleteGold star sir. Gold star indeed.
ReplyDeleteI also think we should all have Jesus-esque beards. It is pivotal in being more like him. :D
Leon Handsome is an oxymoron just like getting married, but remaining a virgin. I have no idea who Megan Fox is, and I'm not sure I'm missing much, but this post is sick. Thanks Jason. Great job.
ReplyDeleteWould have been nice if this topic could have been covered without slamming the saints....yes, some of the examples are a little nutty, but I personally wouldn't mind being as holy as Teresa of Avila, who --- let's be fair -- was about so very, very much more than not wearing shoes.
ReplyDeleteWere these real people? These stories made me laugh out loud!!! Definitely taking things a bit too far :)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Agreed, Teresa was known for a lot of things, not just the anti-shoe campaign. Being one of just three female Doctors of the Church is a pretty big deal. She was highly influential. Lots to admire.
ReplyDeleteBut a big part of her influence came via her role in founding the Discalced Carmelite order (the non-shoe-wearing Carmelites) along with John of the Cross. So I think it's fair game to focus on the shoe thing as being a little nutty. (I didn't even mention the two years she believed Jesus spent with her in bodily -- but invisible -- form, or the time when she said an angel stabbed her in the heart with a fiery spear.)
Teresa was holy, but also a little strange. That's how mystics roll.
I regularly exceed the speed limit by about 10% and don't feel a lot of guilt about it.
ReplyDeleteBut right now I'm feeling really guilty about reading this post. I think I might go take a shower after this or something. Those are some wacky stories; even by SCL standards.
Actually, I think this post says more about the practice of conferring sainthood than it says about the pursuit of personal holiness.
Good stuff! Boyett u rock. In any case, ur serious commentary part about being so focused on gaining a personal holiness to the detriment of holy love is a great reminder. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThen there are the legends of the lengths to which Saint Kevin went to in order to avoid temptation: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06582b.htm
ReplyDeleteI don't personally buy half the extreme stories associated with the lives of the saints; I think they were human, like us, and their humanity became exaggerated, both to the good and to the bad/weird, as their stories were told.
LOL.
ReplyDeleteI liked your point about focusing less on the do nots and more on the dos.
LOL.
ReplyDeleteI liked your point about focusing less on the do nots and more on the dos.
Sorry, I'm in the "could you have done this without slamming the Saints" bit. I usually think this blog is pretty funny - I grew up evangelical, so I recognise most of what's posted here. But hey, a little respect please - I mean, St Paul did some pretty crazy things too, and was seen to be foolish, and look at the Old Testament prophets... if God calls someone to something, who are we to mock them.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, folks who don't believe that people really did stuff like this? I believe it, because I've met people who are (at least to some degree) like them, and heard of people within living memory who were almost exactly like that. And vows of virginity after marriage isn't such a stretch for people who wanted to be monastics but it wasn't possible in their situation (lack of money/monastery/status if you didn't have a wife etc). St John of Kronstadt (lived in the 18th Century) was like that, he and his wife got married but they lived as brother and sister.
And if you want to meet some crazy holy people, meet Orthodox monastics. They're a wonderful kind of nuts, and the most amazing people you'll ever meet. My priest is one (not all Orthodox priests have to be monks (in fact a lot are married) but some are) and he's too young to be a great Saint but he shows promise :P Don't tell him I said that, or he'll get mad at me!
Wow. This is the first SCL that has actually offended me. Accepting the wrong amount of change is stealing. And lust is a serious issue.
ReplyDeleteI for one, am not anywhere close to being too holy. And I don't think it's a joking matter.
If you're only focused on doing good and not focused on avoiding sin, you're going to start looking a lot like the world.
And to the author of this post and the person who said that Jesus was unholy, I think you might want to reconsider your reverence level.
I have to say I'm not real thrilled with this one. WHile it was well written it was also very sarcastic humor directed at our Catholic brothers and sisters which paints their faith and those they hold in high esteem as redicuous. Also, the stories about the saints that were used are held by most Catholics to be an embellishment (read folk legends)of actual facts. I'm really disappointed in the guest writers apparent lack of basic respect as to encourage the disdain and sarcastic laughter directed solely at Catholic believers. Shame on you.
ReplyDeleteAre these stories of the saints any more ridiculous than American Christians who will only associate with other other Christians so they are not tempted to do bad stuff like smoke, drink or watch Desperate Housewives? If we're going to be "in the world" but not "of the world" I think we need to be willing to be light within the context of the darkness around us. And being that light has much more to do with grace and mercy for others and much less to do with some contrived morality shackles we place on ourselves. Remember that the Pharisees accused Jesus of being a "friend of sinners" and that he never argued that point. But he remained holy, even as he was surrounded by many fallen people. When you take your pursuit of holiness too far, you often end up looking (at best) ridiculous or (at worst) a hypocrite. I think that's the point some people have missed with this post. Personally, I loved it. Good job!
ReplyDelete"(Possible picket sign: “Saving souls by shunning soles.”)" -Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteAnd for those who are offended, I'm not Catholic, but if we can't laugh at ourselves a little bit, then our attitude rather proves the point of this post, I think. I would also point out that most of the posts on SCL are actually about protestant/evangelical/nondenominational churches, and I've never been offended by any of Jon's (or any other poster's) lighthearted illustrations of our collective wierdness.
Dude, you forgot Origen who emasculated himself to avoid lust. I'm no guy but still - OUCH!
ReplyDelete(I attribute this information to my senior year in Bible College, and I'd like take a moment to thank them for that....ok, done.)
@Rachel:
ReplyDeleteYou're right in that the stories I use are the ones based on embellished tales of the saints, many (most?) of which are taken to be legendary by the Church's historical scholars. So why does it offend you that this post pokes fun at these legendary stories?
I can see why you might be offended, for example, if I demeaned Mother Teresa's work. But to laugh at St. Wilgefortis and her beard? How exactly is that demeaning to Catholics? To me, it's like being offended when someone makes fun of the outsized big nose on a cartoon caricature drawn for you at the state fair.
I agree with those who think this is a bit over the top. I am an Orthodox Christian, but I read your blog because I see a lot that can be applied to Christians of any stripe. I make it a rule to try not to be offended at much, but this post leaves a sour taste in my mouth and it's the first time I've considered unsubscribing.
ReplyDeleteI am mistaken. Origen did not emasculate himself for lust, but to be more focused on Christ. Just saying. And later he wrote that he was too extreme. Huh, ya think?
ReplyDeleteI think we're walking a fine line when we feel like we can judge a Christians bizarre actions without knowing their hearts. And I think if people were to look back at events in our own lives without knowing the full story, we could probably be deemed strange as well.
ReplyDelete@Jason - Sometimes people want to be offended.
ReplyDeleteIn the NT, I'm called a saint. The only one who could confer that on me was Jesus and He did. I am not at all offended by funny stories about long gone saints. People say and do wacky things all the time and it's okay to laugh at those things.
Oh, in case one of the offended thinks it matters, I also have not attained "holy," (though the Bible says I am already seated in heavenly places), but I don't speed and of course it's stealing and lust is the same as fornication (in for a penny, in for a pound). No one is making light of sin, but instead we're making light of how we pretend to be all superspiritual when we're hiding the "little" things that are so easily glossed over and we're pointing the finger at someone else's really big things. Sometimes, in self-examination, there is less pain if we can take an honest look at just how ridiculous we really are.
If that offends you, really, well, nevermind, it's not exactly my blog...
It's one thing to laugh our ourselves. It's another thing to laugh at others' attempts to honor God with their lives.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThought the post was funny/enlightening. The comments are even more so. Does anyone know of anyone that was called to do any of the things these "saints" were called to do? Bueller? Bueller? I agree with the post that maybe it says more about the church folks who decided on what sainthood looked like then the "saints" themselves. ie "i could NEVER do that, ergo that MUST make that person a SUPER CHRISTIAN!!" Or, maybe it just means they're looney and figure if they do more than Jesus even called us to, then they're in for sure!
ReplyDeleteHere's the disclaimer: the above is written by someone who struggled to earn God's love for the first 23 yrs of the relationship with Him before I came to understand He loved me and there wasn't anything I could do about making Him love/accept me anymore than He already did. Funny thing about that is my life got a LOT more Holy looking when I quit trying to be holy.
Oh and Megan Fox has toe thumbs, fyi.
ReplyDeleteYou should consider that before thinking she's the shiz.
I'm with Kristin and the reast of the 'this post is not funny' crowd.
ReplyDeleteI just don't get the "saint" thing. Southern Baptist (growing up) didn't talk about such. You can poke as much fun as you want and I won't be offended. Now I understand my bible to say that we (believers) are all saints. No one is more special that anyone else.
ReplyDeleteBut you really do make a good point in that it's not about what we can do or keep ourselves from doing that makes us holy. The only thing that can accomplish that is accepting God's free gift of salvation through Jesus. Gospel in a nut shell. Anything else will end up making us look totally ridiculous and probably wind up pushing people away from God instead of drawing to Him.
Sorry this is so un-funny but people who can't appreciate sarcasim aren't supposed to be reading this blog anyway! There is no room to be offended here. We just laugh and love each other...
What is "spiritual energy"? Do you have a gauge of it that goes down when you use your powers? Do you have special potions that fill up your spiritual energy?
ReplyDeleteJust asking.
Jason-
ReplyDeleteI think you made some good points, and some of these stories are just plain weird. Even if they are legends, the idea that they would be held up as something to be emulated is crazy. However, as a Catholic, I still fall into the kind of offended category. It's not that these things shouldn't be brought to light, but I would prefer that a Catholic author was the one doing it (unless you're Catholic and I missed that part). I really like some of Jon's satire, but if a non-Christian wrote it, I would be offended.
Is it fair? Maybe not. But it's how I feel. Still, thanks for the good points about doing something positive instead of doing something crazy.
ROFL! When I studied various saints during seminary I frequently found myself thinking that many of the saints needed meds and a good therapist.
ReplyDeleteI've written a number of posts on this site that I regret. Two of them involved times when I feel like I unfairly attacked an individual instead of an idea. Instead of writing about an issue, I used an individual's life for sensationalism and humor and attention. The post was 99% attack individual and 1% discuss issue. I realized after I wrote them that if my motivation was really to reflect an idea that I felt like needed to be discussed I didn't need to say a person's name, I could just say "an athlete" or "a musician" and then discuss the issue at hand without jumping into the personal. That lesson was part of the reason that I never did a villain's version of the superhero's guide to famous pastors. That would have been an attack.
ReplyDeleteAnd I feel like Jason maintained that balance between issue and individual in this post. The point of the post was not to attack those individuals but rather reflect on an issue. In the first half he unpacks his main point and then expounds on it with examples. I regret that anyone Catholic was offended and with only three years of Catholic high school under my belt I probably don't have a very good filter at understanding what would be offensive to someone who is Catholic. I personally didn't feel that the Catholic tradition was the point of this post. I felt like the point was bigger than that, I felt like the point was that any and all Christians can stumble into an unhealthy pursuit of holiness. I don't think the dangers of that are something that only Catholics suffer from. I think I do that and tons of other Christians from other denominations do that too. I personally have the ability to turn anything and everything into an idol and that includes my pursuit of holiness. In fact I realized recently that I had corrupted my new found love of discipline into an idol and had slowly but surely changed "Look what God's discipline is doing in my life" to "Look how much I can do with disciple! Yay Jon!"
Those are my thoughts on the post and I am really happy that people who feel differently shared theirs. Thanks for taking the time to do that.
Jon
p.s. Keep in mind that Jason Boyett is one of only 7 funny Christian writers in the game right now and may be trying to sabotage me and get people to unsubscribe from this site so that he can keep all the riches of Christian writing to himself. That's my other theory, but I felt like I needed to explain the first one in more detail.
Thanks for the defense, Jon. And yes, you're right. The roster of funny Christian writers is getting crowded. Too crowded. My secret goal is to write offensive guest posts, sneak them onto your site, and get people to unsubscribe from your blog.
ReplyDeleteOnly I'm discovering that this strategy doesn't work too well, in that they end up disliking me, too. Can't count on them to join my funny blog team. Dang.
I guess that's a win-win for Matthew Paul Turner.
"You remain chaste even after your wedding night."
ReplyDelete^^^ Made me spit out my coffee.
WV: culada = See You Later.
WHAT?! You acknowledged that Jesus ate meat!? The vegans are going to be mad at you.
ReplyDelete@11:05 anon-hope it was straight black. The milk will curdle between the keys and sticky? Ick.
ReplyDeleteWV: strivoc: strife and havoc
Jason wreaked some strivoc today with his sick post on trying to make ourselves more holy. You should have seen some of the comments!
I totally agree with what savinggrc and Jon and Jason said. Apparently some people are too busy being offended to realize the point to this post. When did we become politically correct at SCL? Sad.
ReplyDeleteWV: broodals = people who brood brutally. Example: "People who get offended easily are broodals."
I'm not offended by the post, but I also completely understand and respect CM's point about the Catholic author vs. non-catholic author. SCL works and is funny because Jon, as an evangelical Christian, is poking fun at things that are inherently his. He owns them, most of the readers own them to some extent, and we laugh at them. (I don't know Jason, but I'm assuming he is evangelical, too.)
ReplyDeleteThis post made a bit of a leap from the author making fun of things that are his, to the author making fun of things that aren't his, and that he might not fully appreciate culturally and doctrinally. It is the difference in me saying that this dress makes me look like a walking rug and you saying the same. When I say it, it's a self-deprecating joke, when you say it, it's mean and hurts my feelings. (actually, the dress example if far too simplistic, but it is the same basic idea)
Just sayin'. The saints don't inherently belong to evangelical culture, and you're going to have to tread lightly with someone else's stuff. And, Jason, when someone says, 'you offended me,' it is usually far better to say, 'I'm sorry I offended you, I wasn't viewing this through the same filter you were and I understand that I made a mistake,' than 'I'm sorry you were offended,' or, worse, 'you shouldn't be offended.'
I noticed that many or all of these historical footnotes are prior to the Protestant Reformation.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, I bet you all of the aforementioned individuals had very limited, if at all, access to the Holy Bible.
Interesting.
"True love waits.... and waits"
ReplyDeleteThat made me laugh!
This post was interesting! I wasn't offended, but I left the Catholic Church about 15 years ago and consider myself a "Recovering Catholic". I find myself occasionally being offended by "catholic bashing" but I didn't think this post was anywhere near that.
Thanks for the guest post!
The saints don't 'belong' to any one category of Christian; they belong to the Church Universal. However - and I am speaking very broadly as a Protestant married into a Catholic family - Protestants and Catholics do tend to view the saints differently. Many Protestants tend to view the saints as human beings (albeit exceptional ones), and therefore fair game for both praise and punditry. We read about Wilgefortis' beard and Mary naked in the desert and we go, "whoa, that's over the top," and we laugh. Many Catholics, OTOH, tend to view the saints as something on a higher plane than mere human, and therefore off limits as the butt of jokes. (Hear any good Archangel Michael jokes lately? Yeah, me neither. The same respect applies to the saints.)
ReplyDeleteTo have Protestants and Catholics of all stripes together in this forum, even tripping over one of the few remaining cultural stumbling-blocks between us that we didn't even realize was there till there it was, simply attests to the awesomeness of SCL. Laugh, argue, learn, grow, God's purpose served.
I found this post hilarious and a bit sad. It's sad that saints are elevated to legendary status for these things, but then again Christians certainly have our own heros we tend to elevate to almost be equal to God. (*I'm pretty sure I've known a few people who prayed to ask John Calvin into their hearts cough*)
ReplyDeleteSure, it's nice to "respect the saints" as much as it's good to respect any other human being. Because they were. Nothing more. Reading all these stories about what they did really makes me think about religion and how binding it can really be. Jesus gave us a chance to be free from that I think that was one point this post was trying to make, or at least what I got out of it. Something to think about.
(By the way, chickens can't fly. I imagined a lot of clucking and feathers flying into all the food and general pandemonium, not a bird smoothly flying out the window!)
I've been recommending this blog to friends...I hope none of them decided to read it today. If this had been my first SCL post, it would have been my last.
ReplyDeleteHahaha! This is amazing. It's funny what we think of to make ourselves holy, and ignore that that's God's job and that it looks very different from what we think it should be. God's just odd like that.
ReplyDeleteJoe @ 2:07:
ReplyDeleteThat is one of the biggest misconceptions Protestants have about pre-Reformation Christianity (i.e., no one knew anything about the Bible). Completely wrong. I say this as a Protestant who has studied this very topic in great depth for many years. People of the Middle Ages may, by and large, not have had access to books or been verbally literate, but they certainly "knew the Bible," i.e., knew its stories and message, although they understood them in different ways (and those ways were not necessarily inferior to our ways of understanding them, either). Certainly Teresa knew the bible, as did those other saints; in fact, I'll bet you they had memorized it.
Jon, first of all, as one of your most loyal Catholic readers, I want to say that I am not actually offended. I think that we see these saints from different perspectives. I see them as people who put God above ALL else..and if they felt they were holding something in their life higher than God, they cut it out. Just as Christ said.
ReplyDeleteMark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Some of the things described definitely aren't sins in and of themselves, but if they are held as more important than God...
Like I said, my perspective is a bit different, but I am not offended. I am not going anywhere, no matter how hard Mr. Boyett tried to chase me away.
;-) (In case you couldn't tell, that last sentence was MY attempt at humour.)
Oh my gosh -- this same exact thought echoes around in my head so often!
ReplyDelete"What happens when our pursuit of personal holiness becomes so self-interested that it loses sight of what followers of Jesus really ought to be doing? What happens when we focus on ourselves so much we forget to love God and love people?"
Paraphrased, of course. Glad you voiced it. Because now I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I thought I was the odd one out. LOL
I usually love your posts but this one seems less than encouraging, to say the least. There should be no cap limiting how much we long to be conformed to Christ's likeness. Discipline and intentionality are not enemies of enjoying Christ--which are sort of the jugulars you're getting at here. Just sayin'.
ReplyDeleteDear Jayson Boyette,
ReplyDeleteCongratulations! You started a controversy on SCL, which isn't all that hard to do, but still. I've been reading SCL since nearly the beginning and here's some wisdom for you: It's all fun and games till someone gets offended. And then it's more fun. Sometimes it just rolls that way on the best blogsite ever.
Well done.
Stacy
Future post based on this one --
ReplyDeleteStuff Christians Like: Sacred Cows
Guess when it comes to humor and satire, there's certain places that like Europa in the movie 2010, we just shouldn't go there.
OMG that was sooooo funny! On there serious commentary part, it's interesting to note that guys have taken to being rude to women they are not interested in. This is craziness. It used to be that walking with a lady meant offering your arm. It used to be that when a friend of a friend came through town, you were obligated to be decent. Or, lo, if a female friend came through town and wanted to have coffee, that was perfectly OK. Perhaps we're hypersensitive now with all of this divorce stuff going on that we are given to following bullshit because something so harsh MUST be spiritual.
ReplyDeleteYou might like my Biblical Ways of Knowing She's the One
http://savvysinglechristian.blogspot.com/2007/09/biblical-ways-of-knowing-shes-one.html
Having been Catholic at one time or another and then a second time or another, our saints become like friends--sometimes we say wonderful things about them and other times we say irreverent and mean spirited things about them.
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with the folks this sounds off on a number of points--scoffing people's earnest attempts to follow God is not all that funny. Esp. when most of these stories relayed are likely legendary, and not the reason they were canonized.
ReplyDeleteI guess, as a Catholic, I dare you to make the post about offbeat biblical attempts at holiness (Can we say John the Baptists and his diet?). Still funny?
Excellent post. Way to use brevity and the absurd to wake people up to think.
ReplyDeleteI am laughing and laughing and thanking God that I found this website, and now I'm going to Jason's. Humor in Christianity -- are you sure that's okay? :)))
ReplyDeleteDear The Ironic Catholic:
ReplyDeleteYes, I WILL take you up on that dare. In fact, I beat you to the punch. You can read about some of the offbeat things biblical characters have done in Pocket Guide to the Bible. I wrote it before the Sainthood book.
And, yes. Still funny.
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Thanks for the great discussion, everyone. It's been fun!
OK, Jason, I'll take a look. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteI'm really surprised at all the negative comments here. Another commenter said it already, we laugh at weird evangelical stuff all the time, so why are the old saints beyond laughing at? I'm not evangelical, but I'm allowed to laugh at those posts. I'm not Catholic (although with Catholic parents and grandparents I'm more entitled to laugh at this post than at the other ones!)
ReplyDeleteIf we were to apply these comments at the entire blog, Jon would have to shut it down since in every situation described on this blog, there are people only trying to do their best for God.
I personally thought this was a great post. Everyone is a little wacky, and I bet everyone has obsessed a little over a particular issue in their life, going so far as that the focus is not on the issue anymore but on the remedy - like gouging your eyes out instead of facing down your issues with lust. And also, I find it very soothing to be reminded that even the saints were a little weird - and that weird people are still eligible to play good roles in God's kingdom. My God has a sense of humor, I don't know about yours.
at preacherlady: um, the reason we don't have any archangel jokes is because they are not shown to have a personality in the Bible. You need that to make a joke about them. But check out Christopher Moore's Lamb and you'll be surprised at what he came up with!
ReplyDeleteI am trying to write this as gently as possible. I enjoy your blog, I like that it pokes fun at Christian culture and quirks without being insulting. Except when you branch into dealing with things that are seen as Catholic/Liturgical.
ReplyDeleteThis is not the first time that things that are seen as holy by Catholics/Orthodox/Anglicans or practices of personal piety are mocked by people who, frankly, do not understand what is behind them.
Sure, everyone gets a laugh out of those crazy saints and, implicitly, those crazy Catholics who buy such idiocy, but you have not engaged enough even to disagree.
I am not going to get into a debate/discussion about the value of mortification, because I do not think this is the place to do so, nor do I think it would have much effect. However, mocking it without trying to learn or understand it says more about you than those you mock.
There is PLENTY to mock in Evangelical Protestant history, piety, practice, culture and mindset, but it is still pointless and unnecessary to do so. It would still be a sin against my brothers.
I do not know if either Jon or Jason will read this or take it seriously, but the e-mail I have for google is live.
Interesting tidbit: Self-enucleation (the removal of one's own eyes) is a form of self-mutilation with apparently no history in cultures outside Christian influence. Weird, eh?
ReplyDeleteI used to be clinically obsessive compulsive and I can't help but see similarities between things the sick brains and spirits of myself and other OCD patients I know thought God wanted us to do and things these saints did. Not to mention that it's hard to respect, say, people literally starving themselves to death or mutilating their own bodies in the name of God. If we're on that page, then we might as well lend credence to the voluntary crucifixion practices that go on in the Philippines every year in the name of Jesus, since its done out of devotion. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/10/2009-04-10_crucifixtion_reenactment_is_annual_good_friday_rite_in_philippines.html)
The thread of self-destruction that runs through some of these stories is actually pretty disturbing, moreso that these actions were/are lauded as great examples of holy behavior. Why not respect these efforts to glorify God? Because God is not a God that delights in the infliction of suffering. God is love, God is merciful, He suffered SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO. I'm a former cutter and that was an important lesson for me to learn, one that's still difficult for me to understand, difficult (I believe) for humanity as a whole, used as we are to the ways of the world where true mercy is hard to come by. In that way you could say that the use of explicit self-destruction as a method to pursue holiness is perhaps more like the world than it is like what we know about God's holiness and nature.
Although, on the topic of Saint Teresa, I know people who have had unusual experiences like that with Jesus being bodily present (in the sense that they could physically feel His body) but invisible to their eyes. And, hey, Daniel got burning coals on the lips, so why not a burning barb through the heart? Bernini made a rockin' Baroque sculpture out of the whole thing that is seriously beautiful. (http://creerparaver.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/transverberacion-sta-teresa-bernini.jpg)
ReplyDeleteSorry, that first link is bad. Here's the correct one:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/10/2009-04-10_crucifixtion_reenactment_is_annual_good_friday_rite_in_philippines.html
Sweet gouranga! I see you have neglected to mention Origen (or I have overlooked him in my amusement)...
ReplyDeleteI think a little of the pietist, perfectionist bent comes into every saint (canonized or non), as the gap between the commands of God and my inability to attain them, widens.
Eventually, I end up asking myself, 'Am i doing this for Him, or for me? Am I making war on my sin so I can feel good about myself, or because He would be pleased?'
And then it smacks me...
you'll never be perfect
you're the same sob you were when He found you.
you still need Him as much today as the day you were rescued.
And I speed.