Kanye West deserves less grace and forgiveness than I got.
I don’t know the exact amount, unfortunately the Bible’s not terribly clear on measurements. I mean sure, I know Goliath was six cubits and a span, everyone knows that, but when it comes to doling out grace, there’s not a clear form of measurement.
Is grace a liquid? In the songs people sing about God’s love it’s always in the form of water, “fall down like rain,” “wash over me,” etc.
So let’s say that Kanye West deserves one less gallon of grace and forgiveness than I got.
Or maybe a jug. It’s hard to say what the precise amount is but that’s what I was thinking when I heard he ruined Taylor Swift’s moment at the Video Music Awards. After he walked on stage, and interrupted the nervous teenager to tell her about another performer who deserved the award more than she did, a few thoughts popped up. I didn't think about the whole situation a lot, on the Jon scale of thought I gave the incident more time than Salt and Vinegar Pringles but less than the new season of "So You Think You Can Dance." But here's what ran through my head:
“Kanye West always does that. He’s got a history of doing that kind of thing.”
“Kanye West probably did that on purpose, it was staged. He planned it.”
“Kanye West just wounded a teenager, a kid, that is horrible.”
“Anyone who supports him is dumb.”
“He’ll probably apologize but it won’t be real.”
And I felt pretty good hating on Kanye. I got a hit of that, “I’m not as bad as somebody else” drug. I felt better than him and told my wife the whole story with smugness.
But then I thought about it. That was a worst moment, staged or not, that was a mistake and I am so happy my worst mistakes were not televised.
Then I thought about Kanye the person, the son whose mom died. The broken man with a savior who is longing to see a glimpse of him on the road back to the farm. Then I thought about who I wanted to be in the prodigal son story, the older brother who condemns or the servant who helps plan the party? I know which one is easier. I know which one I usually run to. But this time I couldn’t.
Suddenly I didn’t like the first things I thought:
“Kanye West always does that. He’s got a history of doing that kind of thing.”
So do I. I’ve never committed a single sin, a single time. I am a repeat offender. I have a longer history with sin than Kanye does with running on stage at events. Have you ever repeated a sin more than once?
“Kanye West probably did that on purpose, it was staged. He planned it.”
My worst moments were planned. I didn’t fall down the stairs and suddenly find myself landing in a heap of unexpected garbage at the bottom. I made plans. I was deliberate. I set things up that at the time seemed to be what I needed. I did the things that crippled my life on purpose.
“Kanye West just wounded a teenager, a kid, that is horrible.”
He did and it’s inexcusable, but I wounded my own kids, not a 19-year old stranger. I hurt my own kids by working 70 hour work weeks and chasing money instead of them and mortgaging everything that mattered about being a dad. I did that.
“Anyone who supports him is dumb.”
Do you have to support to show love? Do you have to condone to offer grace and forgiveness? Clearly Proverbs spells out a million reasons you shouldn’t support fools and foolish behavior and what Kanye did was foolish. And it'd be equally dumb to judge people for judging Kanye. Are there only two options though? We love him which means we’re pro “running on stage and hurting people” or we hate him? Can’t we disagree with the behavior and offer love to the person? (I think I just invented the phrase, “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” I should put that on t-shirts.)
“He’ll probably apologize but it won’t be real.”
According to whose standards? Mine? Is that what Christ says is the second most important commandment in Matthew 22:39 “Love your neighbor as yourself, only if their apology is legitimate and you feel that their repentance is real?” Or is it written, “Rebuke your neighbor as yourself?” Or is love the thing we’re supposed to do? And let’s be honest, what are the chances that I get to heaven and God says, “You offered too many hurting people grace. You over graced the world Jon. That is whack.”
The more I thought about it, the harder it was to hate Kanye.
So I tweeted and wrote on facebook:
“If we all had our worst mistakes televised we'd give Kanye West grace instead of hate.”
Some people got mad and defriended me (worst verb ever) and some people were cool with that idea. I understand both reactions. I'm not justifying a dumb mistake from Kanye or desupporting Taylor Swift (second worst verb ever). I can only tell you what my experience was because it’s 100% of the experiences I had yesterday. When I heard the story about Kanye, I judged him. I hated on him. I did not correct him or try to offer wise counsel, I hated.
Maybe you didn’t.
Maybe you laughed at how silly and insignificant the whole thing was because it's just a bunch of celebrities, who cares. Maybe you threw on Kanye's “Jesus Walks” and got down like the awkward girl from the rich part of town that inexplicably moves to the inner city high school and has to learn how to dance to survive some sort of all girl gang but ends up falling in love with a tough on the outside by soft and tender on the inside street youth while learning the valuable lesson that if you believe in yourself, anything is possible.
Maybe that was your reaction.
Mine was hate.
And I hate that.
And I love that God loves me like He loves Kanye.
Because we are both in desperate need of it.
Thank you. I needed this reminder.
ReplyDeleteDid you seriously get unfriended over that? Because, Jon, when I saw that Facebook entry, it slapped me right upside the head. Where would Jesus be; on the sidelines, yelling "Jacka**" at Kanye? Or would He be sitting beside him, looking in his face and telling him about love and grace? Yes, afterwards, He would say "Now..go and sin no more", but first, He'd have to have the conversation. Thanks, Jon... because while your first instinct was human, your second was just what He wanted.
ReplyDeleteGood reminder....I was right with you on judging him....and our SC congressman who yelled "you lie" at Obama....and our Governor with his mistress "soul mate"
ReplyDeleteLord, help me see others as you see them and see myself as you see me...Amen
I think this is one my favorite posts from you so far.....
ReplyDeleteCan you post the part of this blog where you were going to sound like an episode of Facts of Life?? Like a "Bonus to the Kanye Post!!!" or something????
ReplyDeletepersonally it took me forever to figure out why everyone was hating on Kanye. I am way out of the loop on so many things because I have enough on my plate to follow celebrities and all their stupid mistakes. I think people just want to feel like someone is a bigger loser than them, and when it is a celebrity that is worse than you then that means you are better than a celebrity. Deep stuff there.
ReplyDeleteGrace is a powerful thing and through life I have to make some very tough decisions about people. In the end I figure I'm bound to make a few of the wrong choices. I might have the option of pursuing justice in a given situation or pursuing grace. Maybe the better choice at that time would be to chase down justice, but not knowing for sure what the future holds I try to follow grace with the idea that, if I mess up I'd rather it be by having grace instead of my idea of justice.
This is something I try to model and teach because I really feel more Christians need to stop worrying about their rights and start worrying about the souls of those around them.
Do I get irony points if I was nodding my head, totally agreeing with you, and then immediately starting judging the people who defriended you on Facebook?
ReplyDeleteElizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI love it. Judging people for being judgmental is probably my favorite ironic sin of all time.
Jon
Repeat offender-I love that! What a concept. I hope I never judge someone again without remembering that phrase.
ReplyDeletesigh......
ReplyDeletedang it, you always do that, don't you.......
trot out the reminder of the grace we received when we're all caught up in the hatin'.......which thankfully we didn't receive......
God has totally forgiven Kanye for his treatment of Taylor, but probably not for that haircut...it was just terrible.
ReplyDeleteI think Jesus would say to Kanye, "Yes, you are a jackass. But I love you anyway."
ReplyDeleteAs I was watching the VMA's I was completely disgusted with Kanye. I mean, she's what, like 17...? Seriously. But as time went on and people kept harping on it I became annoyed like you and felt like we needed to show more grace and patience toward him. I do wonder, however, if grace is as simple as we sometimes make it out to be. The grace that we have been shown does not come without serious chastisement for sin and our stupid mistakes. My question is shall the grace we exemplify be without limitations...? I think something universal rose up within us and within the crowd there in NYC that said a grown man who publicly humiliates a young girl who looks about as innocent and sweet as Goldilocks is appalling. Perhaps there is something beautiful even in that universal pull to love and embrace her. I agree with you though that enough is enough and it is getting just silly. Again, I'm over this whole Kanye West thing but I do wonder if grace is at times more nuanced than we might first be inclined to think.
ReplyDeleteI'm with David above me on that one.
ReplyDeleteGrace isn't anything we deserve anyway. I think we all struggle with that initial human desire, saying it out loud or not, and what we know in our hearts is the right response.
ReplyDeleteAwesome post. Anyone who un-followed or friended you because of it (and yes those words look so wrong written out) probably needs to think long and hard about why it gave them such a reaction.
Jon, thank you for this. When I saw him later that evening, and the shame he felt because he knew this is not the man his mother raised him to be, my heart really went out to him. Of course what he did was wrong, but we can love him and want him to heal, too.
ReplyDeleteWe are all created in His image. (God's image, not Kanye West's image... just thought I'd clear that up.)
ReplyDelete“Experience confirms the witness of Scripture: we cannot long sin against God without sinning against God’s image bearers, and if in measure we do love God, we will love those who bear his image.”
- D.A. Carson, Christ and Culture Revisited, p. 47
For me, your best post ever!
ReplyDeleteAnd I like them all.
Great post. Really good.
ReplyDeleteBut I would not use the word "mistakes" in the phrase about having our worst mistakes broadcast on TV. This was not technically a "mistake." Sin is a willful act. I don't think it is accurate to call what he did a "mistake".
Amen, and amen. I can't imagine if even one of my screw-ups was televised, discussed, analyzed, repeated on the news, posted to the internet, and magnified for the world to see. I'd be Kanye.
ReplyDeleteIt's humbling to recognize that my knee-jerk reaction is to see other people as two-dimensional, to deny them the great mercy and grace I've received. None of us rightly *deserve* grace, mercy, or forgiveness. Not a single one. And we would do well to remember that, to remember that it is infinite, that the world needs it, and that it's our job to live it, to embody it, to share it.
Kanye West behaved like a jerk, and he deserved to be called out.
ReplyDeleteHe has since apologized. I hear he seemed very remorseful on Leno, and that he called Taylor Swift to apologize and she accepted his apology. Now it's time to let it go. Even though I read some mighty funny tweets on the subject. May have even wrote a few. My favorite? Thanks for asking...
InkPanther: I was in the middle of writing this tweet when Kanye started yelling at me that @katdish has better tweets.
Okay...Letting.....Go.....Now!
I agree with Anonymous at 5:37 AM -- People caught with egg on their faces these days are way too quick to say, "I made a mistake." I agree we must extend grace. Along with that, perpetrators (myself included) should expect (and accept) consequences.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate this post. It really puts everything in perspective again. I couldn't imagine how I would feel if my sin was broadcast on national television....
ReplyDeleteIMNSHO, if the WORST sin around was grabbing a microphone and acting like a (insert metaphor here), then the world would be a much better place than it is. Because as it is, there're other sins like murder, stealing, cheating, and lying. Even in the same lightweight category of "saying hurtful stuff", people say worse everyday to people who love them.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, our offers of grace and forgiveness are a bit beside-the-point in any case. God, and the people who were wronged, are the ones whose grace and forgiveness are applicable.
Bravo.
ReplyDeleteHave you written a blog on "Judging people for being judgmental" - because I'm sure there's many many people that can relate. I laughed when I read what elizabeth wrote (and your response) - this blog was great - I reposted it because there has been so much talk of this subject. I think the thing that really stuck with me was someone's comment on Facebook saying "I'm not even a christian, and I am able to forgive him. You people crack me up." and it's so true and sad...
ReplyDeleteThanks for putting this in perspective. Oh, that it would be said one day of me that I extended grace to too many hurting people...that I overgraced the world...
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I'm going to have to dissent from the overwhelming praise of this post.
ReplyDeleteThis post proves that one of the things Christians like is "grace at the expense of justice." Every time someone makes a mistake, whether celebrity or friend of acquaintance, the immediate response is the exonerate the offender, regardless of whether he or she demonstrates contrition. Of course we shouldn't condemn, but we need to remember too that "only God can forgive sins."
I think you now have a higher conviction rate than Jack McCoy.
ReplyDeleteVery well said, Jon. We need more reminders like this during our time here. Learning to NOT be hateful every time we see a celebrity/politician/etc. act like a fool will do nothing but help us in the long run.
ReplyDeleteI'm guilty of it just as much as everyone else. But after every time I get all riled up, I sit there and think, "WHY are you wasting time getting mad at this guy? Are you really making things better by bashing him?" I wish I could remember to think that BEFORE I get mad every time I hear about something like this.
Can we send this to Congress who spent all day yesterday beating that Wilson guy up even though he said he was sorry and the apology was already accepted? I can't imagine losing your cool in a setting like that. Talk about embarassing. I think if Christians extended more grace to people like Wilson and Kanye, then people would truly see Christ in us.
ReplyDelete@ Josh
ReplyDeleteI understand your intent. Too often it appears that we gloss over the severity of sin and the deadly consequences. However, we should remember that God did exact justice, when He sent Jesus to the Cross. All the rage God has about your and my sin, Jesus took on, as though He were the sinner and we were the innocent ones. We don't deserve that kind of justification. That's why it's grace. And if we are people of grace, shouldn't we be people who give grace to others who don't deserve it, just like us?
I'm with Jarrod--the real issue is the haircut. It's an abomination.
ReplyDeleteJon, when you shaved lines in your eyebrows in 7th grade, you flirted with eternal damnation. Kanye's full-on carving crossed the line. It's unforgivable.
@ Josh
ReplyDeleteI think the whole point of grace is that it's bigger than justice. What justice could Ms. Swift really get in this situation? The VMA's cannot be recreated and the award presented again. Sure Kanye can be publicly condemned, but sometimes the pursuit of justice is fruitless and spiritually costly. God knew that and that's why He commanded us to love and seek justice for those with no voice, but not for every single time we're wronged.
Forgiveness, however, does not require us to forget everything. In fact, in this case I really hope we don't! I hope everyone can learn to be gracious losers or how to express disagreements in appropriate ways and I hope MTV thinks twice about giving a loose cannon a front row seat next time.
I agree with you. It's hard sometimes to think someTHING is stupid without thing someONE is stupid.
ReplyDeleteCheryl Barker: "Oh, that it would be said one day of me that I extended grace to too many hurting people"
ReplyDeleteHurting people!! That one got my blood pressure up. I do think that Kanye was genuinely remorseful, but that stuff about him acting the way he did out of his "hurt" and that he needs to deal with his "hurt" was junk.
Like Conan O'Brien said, yeah that's exactly (sic) what he needs to do, go think and reflect more about himself.
It really bothers me that we want to call stuff like this a "mistake" which it was not. Or to let him get away with putting himself in the "hurting" role even tho he was the perp.
Bennett, oh brother of mine
ReplyDeleteI was in the 9th grade when I shaved stripes in my eyebrow not the 7th grade. I was 2 years smarter and 1 eyebrow dumber.
Jon
I agree that we should give him the grace that was given to us but... I think we all learned a valuable lesson about allowing him to be put in a position of authority. Just because we forgive him doesn't mean we let him continue his behavior. This wasn't the first time he's done something like this and while I don't think we should continue to hold someone's sins against them... I also don't think we should continue to let them do it over and over and over again... that's enabling.
ReplyDeleteThe consequences for his actions should be severe. Not because he messed up one time and we're all so judgemental but because Kanye West has shown the public his character and we need to put a stop to it instead of allowing that kind of behavior to continue.
I'm not saying that we should condemn him, he's still a man and he will mess up... but I do think that public television is probably a bad place for him to be.
I agree with the post, grace is amazing and should be passed out by the handful but... isn't there a point where we have to say "Sorry Kanye, I thought last time would be the last time. I can't allow you to continue doing this."
Summer
Love your Serious Wednesdays! And I also loved Taylor Swift's response on The View (it was played on our morning radio show as I was driving my daughter to school this morning!) Maybe she read your tweet??
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but when Beyonce' won an award, she asked Taylor Swift to come up and give her acceptance speech. It was kind of cool seeing that go down the way it did in the end.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Kanye was pretty hammered at the time (as per his red carpet photos before the event) so this may have been something he regrets having done without full coherence as well. He may feel worse than anyone about it honestly.
I haven't read all the comments, so I may be repeating what's already being said:
ReplyDeleteI don't like what Kanye did. He can be a real tool. BUT, I can't stand to see how everyone is so vicious in what he did. My thoughts also run to this; he lost his beloved mom not too long ago. Profound grief makes us do some things we don't normally do. Maybe he's just outside of his mind right now and doesn't need our condemnation, but for us to shut up and let this die. Like you said in your tweet, how would we all feel if our mistakes were broadcast all over the internet and national news?
Yo Taylor, that video was nice but Beyonce's was better!
ReplyDeleteYeah it's easy to call Kanye a "donkey". But then I think about my own stupid behaviors and how unself-controlled I am. I have ugly attitudes and outbursts at home towards my wife and daughter.
I remember someone once saying, "what a wretch man I am, who will save me from this body of death? Thanks be to Christ Jesus".
i hope he reads this too (as well as everyone who though what you though -- including myself!), what an awesome testimony.. you are right on!
ReplyDeleteYou're just reminded me once more of the deep challenge that Christians have in trying to actually figure out what forgiveness is and how to truly put it into action without becoming a doormat. There's a difference between forgiveness and pretending that said event has been erased from history. We often lean towards doormat or grudge...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how to feel about this. The thing is that Kanye West make a series of stupid choices and has a history of make said choices, you know, like saying the gov't is trying to purposely kill black people in Hurricane Katrina, making music I don't like, getting snockered before the awards show, jumping on the stage and stealing Taylor Swift's mic, and acting terribly unapologetic...until everyone got mad at him. Fine, I can see he's a hurting guy who needs God, but at the same time...of course, people are angry at him! He did act like a total jerk!
ReplyDeleteUntil he can learn to act appropriately, he should be banned from awards shows. I mean, he's hollered and caused a hissy fit before when he hasn't won awards. I'm seriously thinking that Jesus would be able to decipher Kanye's heart, give Him a wise talking to (if he thought Kanye could accept it, and all that?
Personally, I was a little put-off by your Twitter comment, but I wouldn't defriend you because of it. I mean, one differing opinion doesn't make any of your others any less valuable. And reading your thought process here, I understand that comment so much more.
The failure of people of faith to communicate their differences in a healthy way is really ruining our community, you know?
straight up excellent!
ReplyDeleteThank you for reminding us to see this situation through the eyes of God. :)
ReplyDeleteAs I posted on FB, I've got lots more and bigger things to worry about than Kanye's stupid remarks in one of the 2bazillion award ceremonies that are now on tv, but on the subject of grace, that is something to discuss.
ReplyDeleteWe were visiting around looking for a church in a new town and we dropped in a Brethren church (irony reigned here where women wore head coverings and shorts). The pastor was teaching about grace and he said something that was rather profound. "Until you've experienced both sides -grace and law- you cannot truly appreciate grace and that, I think, is the real issue here.
Until you've been born again and then fallen to a low that is lower than any you ever had been at before salvation and still had Jesus reach out a hand in grace and not in condemning law and say, here let me help you up, then
you cannot fully understand grace. I've been in that spot and seriously hope to never have to go there again.
If your continued reaction is to fry Kanye (or anyone else) a bit more, then you really don't quite get it. Sure you understand that grace is the only thing that you have going for you, but perhaps somewhere deep in your subconscious , you have this thought that, 'no I am worth nothing without the covering of Jesus' blood, but hey, I've not done anything like that since then. I've lived my life following the rules. I don't need anymore grace.' Having been both up on top because Jesus carried me there and all the way at the bottom because I chose to sin in spite of what Jesus did for me, I can tell you that Jesus has to look at my sin all the time and extend more grace even though I've NEVER deserved it.
On another point, did I miss it somewhere that Kanye said he had already been born again? If not, then we're not
judging righteous judgment. I hate to be the one to break it
tosome of ya'll, but sinners sin. You shouldn't expect "Christian" behaviour from sinners. Decency? Well, you
can hope for it, but expect it? Not so much.
Sorry for funky formatting. Making corrections from the phone has challenges.
Ouch, ouch! You just grinded my toes into dust! I was mad at Kayne and I was judgmental. I was burning a cd yesterday and I even skipped over Jesus Walks because I thought I'd show him! (Like Kayne cares if he is on a cd of mine or not!)
ReplyDeleteAnother great post as usual!
Dang it! Now you've gone and convicted me.
ReplyDeleteGood thoughts.
Thank you for posting this. I know at times I am quick to speak and easily forget that I too make “mistakes” and I would hope that others would extend grace to me. In a society that is quickly becoming one of anger and rudeness it is nice to know that there are still those out there who can forgive and love their neighbors.
ReplyDelete~M
And another point: As someone posted, if only God can offer forgiveness, exactly who do you suppose you are to offer judgment about Kanye or his motives in apologizing? Only God knows the heart.
ReplyDeleteWV: foodop - when someone on the 2nd floor brings food and puts it out on the conference table for everyone to eat.
Man, Pat gave us another foodop today. I love her cooking!
oh my - this is good stuff.
ReplyDeletewe just love giving grace to people we think deserve it - don't we?
Thanks for writing this. When I heard and read about what Kanye West did, I, too, initially thought that he was a jerk, but then I began to search out what his background is and found that his mom had died a couple of years ago along with one or two other things.
ReplyDeleteI immediately began to have compassion for him...being a hurting and broken young man.
I am so glad for the Romans 5:20-21
which says: Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. (KJV) So glad and thankful for Grace reigning and covering all my sin, past, present, and future!
I, think Kanye West, undeserving (isn't this what Grace is for?) as we may think he is, needs Grace poured out on him by God (already done) and us. And instead of condemning him (condemn the act, yes, but not him), we should be showering him with Prayer, Love & Grace. And always remember,"But for the Grace of God, go I!"
We sing this this song in worship (Hosanna). The Bridge says, "Heal my heart and make it clean. Open up my eyes to the things unseen. Show me how to love like you have loved me. Break my heart for what is yours. Everything I am for your kingdom's cause. As I walk from earth into eternity." This is my prayer for the Body of Christ! I sensed that God's heart broke when Kanye got up on that stage. Because, in reality, it wasn't so much about him dissing Taylor Swift as it was about him needing and wanting attention (whether positive or negative). Surely this, along with the rest of past his behavior is a cry for help!
Just my 2 cents!
Thanks again for writing this and being true and honest!
Pat Thomas
Ouch and ouch.
ReplyDeleteYou just ruined my hate of Kayne's actions.
Thank you.
I'm too concerned with other people and not with my OWN SIN. Thanks for the reminder that I'm not perfect. It sounds ridiculous but it's true.
Love this. And I love how it made me think about my reaction, which was the same as yours.
ReplyDeleteOver graced the world! Love it! Etched in my mind the next time I start to participate in the judgement olympics.
ReplyDeleteSchadenfreude is something that should be deconstructed by Christians. Kudos.
ReplyDeleteThat said, are we unreasonable in being reluctant to forgive folks who continually exhibit hypocrisy, ego, selfishness, etc.? Not saying we shouldn't forgive, but I think our cynicism surrounding public figures who continually screw up in messy ways is justified.
Same goes for Jon and Kate- and anyone else who has their lives televised all over the world- I'm like you- condemning- hateful- til God reminds me that I'm just as guilty and really no different- except my life is not flashed before the public eye- You have a brilliant way with words!!!
ReplyDeleteGrace is a wonderful thing. Grace is something we receive but do not deserve from God.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good post, but that being said, I find there are often times when we talk about grace grace grace grace grace and don't discuss consequences. The ENTIRE Bible is something we need to heed, not just the New Testament.
Anybody that has read Numbers will see it referenced often in the New Testament. If you don't remember, in Numbers the people consistently sinned (when they did nothing but complain and rebelled against God) and God finally said, "Enough. You don't think I can deliver you to the land of milk and honey? You don't think I'm big enough to make sure that you defeat the enemy. Fine. You're going to die out here in the wilderness and I'll give to your children what you no longer deserve." I'm paraphrasing but you can read Numbers 14 to see what I am talking about.
The point I am making is that yes, there is grace. But there are also CONSEQUENCES for ones actions. God will forgive us all the time for our sin, but it does not mean there will not be consequences at times. There is nothing wrong with forgiving but also saying you're deleting yr Kanye West songs from your iPod and pledging to no longer buy his music. There is nothing wrong with calling him out and saying, "What Kanye West did was wrong."
As Christ followers we need to keep things in perspective.
As usual, hilarious and pertinent reminders about faith and love. Thanks you!
ReplyDeleteGreat post, sobering content.
ReplyDeleteJon, I re-posted your update on this yesterday and I have to say, it caused a stir. Thank you for following up with a powerful post on this. I don't mind at of being accused of over-gracing the world. I want THAT on a t-shirt.
ReplyDeleteVery insightful post.
ReplyDeleteI've noticed a lot of unfriending and unfollowing lately on Facebook and Twitter. It seems we can't disagree without disassociating. It's very disheartening.
I blogged about that very phenomenon recently. I think it has great conversation potential.
Friend of mine once said
ReplyDelete"10 billion oceans of grace"
There's plenty for all
http://www.ChristianHaiku.com
Romans 6:10, 1 Peter 3:18
it wasn't on TV, but i fell on my face after tripping over sin in front of a lot of people. when your sin gets painted on the wall for everyone to see, your willingness to give compassion rapidly expands to the size of your desire to receive it.
ReplyDeletewhen we hurt people, i really believe it's because we're selfish, struggling with our own issues, and because of this fallen world we end up slapping an innocent bystander as we fall.
sin is intense, thick, slimly, and able to get itself into anything. which makes grace all the more amazing and powerful.
See, even my comment got saved! ;-)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous dissenting comments with the phrase "blood boil" make me smile. Because I am that guy, hiding behind my keyboard.
ReplyDeleteAnd to the commenter who said that saying hurtful things isn't as bad as cheating, stealing, or murdering, you must have never had anything hurtful said about you.
People (men especially) want to be respected more than just about anything. So, I'd much rather you take my car and my money than to take my respect. And to cause others to lose respect for me is exponentially worse. Saying hurtful things is much worse (as it relates to harm done) than "tangible" sins like stealing. That line about sticks and stones we all sang in elementary school is a lie. Sticks and stones only hurt the physical. Words can ruin you.
I'm kind of puzzled as to why we're so focused on this celebrity clash that has absolutely nothing to do with us. Granted, I'm not a news follower, but to me this apparent obsession with and exhaustive discussion of the lives and actions of public entertainment figures, even in context of doctrine and "Christian" attitudes, places too much weight on the trivial. How is it not just the Christian version of tabloid gossip?
ReplyDeleteOur reaction to this incident, it seems to me, only has value in cultivating a certain attitude within ourselves; it has nothing to do with either party involved in this situation, and minimal impact on the way we live our lives together as a community of believers balancing grace with justice and consequences. And while cultivating gracious attitudes is important as it applies to how we treat the people we encounter on a daily basis, it seems kind of silly to worry so much about whether or not we forgive a man whom the consuming majority of us has never met, and who personally knows nothing of us, for an act that caused us no personal offense.
I like what Josh had to say about justice -- and I think that the question of the extension of grace raised by this post is much better applied to our own smaller communities. I've seen grace misapplied at the expense of justice in the church of my growing up, and people I know, myself included, were directly damaged by that misapplication, to the extent that it has taken some of the members of my former youth group years to begin to recover. Situations like this, in which leaders of our own churches and communities and families act damagingly toward the people under their care, would, I would think, merit far more attention than one drunken fool being a jerk to a young girl on a public stage.
Sure, from what I glean of this incident, the whole thing was wrong. But why are we so fixated on it? There's plenty of injustice and unkindness going on within our own spheres of experience without worrying so much about our attitudes toward one stranger's effect on another. The story is interesting, as are the resulting debates, but on some level the noble theorizing seems to be an effective distraction from real application of this very relevant and nuanced (thanks, Melissa) subject regarding the treatment of broken people who hurt other broken people.
Maybe a public incident is a point of connect for a large number of readers who live far apart from each other and know even less of each other than they do of Kanye and Swift. But even so...it seems kind of trivial.
Heh... I posted my thoughts about this on my blog yesterday. Mostly about the whole being judgmental thing...
ReplyDeletehttp://nicholasccasey.blogspot.com/2009/09/judging-people.html
@ savinggrc - I am totally with you. Not one, but two out-of-wedlock pregnancies right after being born again (same man - also born again). Talk about having your repeated sins on public display. But in the midst of the 2nd pregnancy, when I hit bottom, God reached me in the most remarkable way with His love and His grace. I finally let Him pick me up and turn my life around.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where Kanye West is spiritually, but regardless, I pray that God will reach him in the same way and that Kanye will let Him turn his life around too.
Awesome piece, Jon. Seriously great stuff. And like Melody said, "I needed that."
ReplyDeleteYou are such a stinkin' good writer! I'm jealous!
ReplyDeleteThis all is so utterly true. For some reason, I have had a lot of "judgment" issues occurring in my life recently, and this was exactly what I needed to read. It hit home! As always, love love love your blog. It’s my guilty pleasure to read as soon as I get in the office Yes, probably a sin as well, but I somehow justify it because I’m connecting with God.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this. So powerful and a much needed reminder.
ReplyDeleteJon, I LOVED this! Thank you! Can you or have you written about that phrase "Love the sinner, hate the sin." If not, please do.
ReplyDeleteBeloved Mama, thank you. I judged Kanye West and then read this post and was convicted. So then I read the comments and felt so good about confessing my judging sin. What a cool Christian I am! THEN, I read what you said about Jon and Kate and I said, "Nuh-uh. They don't get grace, those idiots!" Um...I need to hang out with Jesus a little more.
I agree and I do have love for Kanye as I believe God would want me to and as He has loved me. Yet, I have dislike for his actions. He has a pattern of an unrepented sinner and while I too am a sinner at least I try to work along side the Lord in my life to change that. Therefore, I have to say that there is no way I will ever support Kanye in any venture he undertakes unless he too repents and returns to the God that loves him. Because in reality, my love means nothing, God's love really matters.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the same thing, yesterday. Thanks for writing this.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Jon for this post. When you get the T-shirts printed let us know ;-).
ReplyDeleteI have been struck lately on how judgemental the media/ entertainment industry is (also how much all news media outlets have conformed to "People" magazine on their focus, but that is a side issue). And I start getting judgemental in return. Then God shows me that some/most of those people working in that business haven't really EXPERIENCED true grace and forgiveness, so how can they offer it and demonstrate it to others? And then God brings to mind all the people that I have failed in giving grace.
His latest image to me is this: if you are "enjoying" seeing them punished for their mistakes, you aren't showing grace. Ouch!!!
Thanks for speaking some truth with love and snark. You are like the Jon Stewart of christian culture.
ReplyDeletei gotta say, i truly believe that even god hangs his head occasionally at his children and mutters "what a jackass..." before smiling to himself and then offering a big bowl of grace and forgiveness. but maybe thats just me. =]
ReplyDeleteWow, you got defriended? That's an intense reaction to something like this.
ReplyDeleteI did my best to avoid juding Kanye as a person. I don't know if his apologies were sincere or not. For all I know, he's an okay guy who has some issues to sort out. But there's no denying that what he did at the VMAs was stupid and rude. I try to be careful to draw the line between judging a person and judging that person's actions.
Love it. And, as always, love the reference to the after-school special movie. I'm a new reader and look forward to the blog every day...well done! :)
ReplyDeleteI could NOT agree with you more.
ReplyDeleteAmazing that we are all spending so much time debating or agreeing...grace? justice? forgiveness? some conbination of these in a particular order? Truly, who are we to judge? Let's be honest with ourselves though. We judge. We DO judge. All the time. We judge one another for our sins, for perceived sins, for interrupting Taylor Swift's acceptance speech, for apologizing for interrupting TS's speech, for whether or not you think Kanye deserves grace or only grace if it comes with "appropriate" consequences (and appropriate by whose standards? are we appointing ourselves the judge?). We judge other christians, other churches, for secondary matters, for doing things differently even though still in the name of Jesus and for the glory of God. We judge things, people, the world daily, we judge each other...all the time. Only the judgement of our God matters. I'm thankful for that. And I'm thankful for his mercy. Even after this post, even after we all become aware (again) that we judge one another, we will still judge one another because we are all imperfect. Thank God that the Truth and the Gift is not contingent on me.
ReplyDeleteGreat post Jon.
ReplyDeleteLast night, when i couldn't sleep very well, i lay in bed thinking about this whole debate on your facebook page and had a scripture come to mind... Let he who has no sin cast the first stone. Thanks for standing up for what you know is right.
ReplyDeleteGreat post, great reminder. And I feel you, Jon, I really do. That said, Kanye really falls into the camp that rhymes with "koosh tag." There's nothing - staged or unstaged - that the brother does that is with integrity and kindness. He's 100% about himself.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I know that the same could be said about me. And I know my mistakes aren't televised - but that's really irrelevant as he wasn't asked to go up on stage and show himself to be the jerk that he is. That was volitional and, in the age of the Internet, it's also viral and permanent.
Yes I have a plank that is hard to see and for some reason it seems to be clear in color because I surely can see the speck in others eyes. It is when I complain to the Lord that He shows me how I do the same type of thing. I pray that I would have eyes to see as He sees and a love that is real that really cares for humanity. NOONE is perfect except our Father in Heaven and His sweet son, Jesus!
ReplyDeleteHelp me Lord!
well, go 'head on! so glad you had the nerve to put us in our places. awesome. i wish more conservative christians had the same thoughts about terrorists and obama. hate doesn't do a whole lot for the kingdom, but it sure does make us feel justified...until we remember that we were still sinners when we were bought at a price. it also shows us who we truly worship. love this post.
ReplyDeleteWhat about justice?
ReplyDeleteWhat about hey, that guy acts like a jerk over and over again, maybe we shouldn't give him our respect and such cultural influence?
What about the fact that he's hurting people? He's causing racial divides? Where's the grace for those people he's having a negative impact on?
The fact is this messed up kid has been put on a pedestal and given too much power in our society, and I for one am GLAD to see people finally realize what a jerk he is and pull him down off the pedestal. Being a celebrity isn't a birthright - we're not being harsh on him when we allow him to destroy his own career by his own choices and actions.
I think a lot of people let themselves or others be stepped all over in the name of grace. What about grace to the victims? There used to be respect for having good judgment. Now you can't use the "J" word without coming off like a villain. Even Jesus took a stand, people.
How about a little tough love for Kanye, let him finally reap the consequences of the seeds he's sowed? Only then might he actually learn something.
This is beautiful. I love it!
ReplyDeleteYour comment about that on twitter stayed with me all day...I realised how quick I am to judge, and for honest people like you who wake me up to what I'm doing. I love your blog btw...I have been known to cry laughing for many minutes at it. Ace.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I get your point it is not my place to offer forgiveness to Mr. West. He didn't do anyting to ME. Grace, yes, that should be exteded to everyone. But, considering whether or not to forgive him for an offense committed against someone else, nope.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it better. Grace always wins.
ReplyDeletePreach it, brother!
ReplyDeleteThank you for that post, Jon. Right on the money. It's easy for me to hate on people when they make mistakes too but then, if I really think about it, I hope that people would offer me grace and forgiveness when I screw up rather than abandon me as worthless.
ReplyDeleteJon, you are so right. I too often fall into judging. Thank you for the reminder.
ReplyDeleteDiane
Oh man. I totally hated on Kanye, too. But, you are totally right. Humbling post, Jon. Thanks. I needed that.
ReplyDeleteI don't follow pop culture really so I didn't really know about this till it was pretty much over. Apparently, after his earlier clumsy attempts to apologize on his blog and on Leno, Kanye West called up Taylor Swift and apologized to her, and she accepted that apology. Doesn't that make the rest of the discussion moot now?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the self-righteous ranting was not good for the people doing it...but on the other hand, maybe the public disapproval helped him get to that place where he was able to give a decent apology at the main person he offended against.
I'm all for grace, and having mercy on people-- I really am. However, I think that we have a generation of mean, spoiled and outright out-of-control celebs in our world now, and if their actions keep being rewarded, we're going to create even bigger monsters.
ReplyDeleteAs much as there is grace, and trust me, I've been on the receiving end more then my fair share, there are also consequences for every action. If this causes Kanye's music to be pulled from stations, and causes people to think twice before buying his music, well, then that is a consequence of his actions.
I've had to "pay" for my sins. Not with death thanks to Christ, but I've lost friendships, I've hurt my family, and I've hurt myself. Kanye is going to have to "pay" for his. He's lost fans, and friends, he was kicked out of the MTV awards show... he's paying. There has to be a balance between grace, and allowing someone to reap what they sow. I mean, isn't that what God wants from us? He allows us to reap the earthly consequences of our actions.
"save the last dance" references always go a long way with me.
ReplyDeleteLet she who does not sin throw the first stone...or something like that. I'm not great at quoting the Bible, but you know what I mean.
ReplyDeleteGreat post Jon!
ReplyDeleteAlthough I can't help but laugh at what Katy Perry twittered at the VMAs: "It's like u stepped on a kitten." LOL!
Wow - That was a hard post to read. It made me realize a lot of things about myself.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
Where would we all be without grace? Good one Jon
ReplyDeletecoming to the party late, but good post & good comments.
ReplyDeletei have to sing a little caedmon's call when i get self-righteous/ judgmental.
"i'm so thankful
that i'm incapable
of doing any good on my own."
that helps me when i mess up
and when i think i'm wonderful.
Here's my thought:
ReplyDeleteTaylor was the person who was hurt, disrespected, etc. She immediately responded to the whole situation in grace, and has continued to do so, including accepting a direct apology from the "offender". As nothing but non-injured observers, who are we to do anything else? We need to learn from her example, and pray that God will work the situation for good in Kanye's heart, just like we would do for anyone else in our lives who has done something foolish.
Nice example of Christian repentance dude.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGood post.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's easier to offer grace to someone when they haven't sinned directly against you.
But look what Kanye's saying now (can you believe this?):
http://tinyurl.com/melnr4
:) :) hehe .
Jon,
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely fantastic post! thanks for the honesty. So often we get caught up in the craziness of media hype that we forget that there are real people involved that need grace and somebody to reach out their hand.
ROFL @ Elizabeth and "irony points" I didn't even realize it but I did feel a little judgmental of the "defrienders" (hah horrible noun) ironic sins are so sneaky!
ReplyDeleteWell...she did become a home town hero...now everyone is rooting for her...she has a chance to make her career legendary.
ReplyDeleteDeb - you are hilarious!
ReplyDeletewell if God loves Kanye, he must LOVE LOVE LOVE Beyonce
ReplyDeleteWow, Jon. Funny, introspective, gracious and convicting. Can you put anything else in this post! I was right there in the same room with you, thinking the same things about Kanye. But, I didn't go as far as you. Just awesome, dude.
ReplyDeleteYo, Jon. I'm so happy for you to write this, and I'mma let you finish. But I just have to say I'm like totally the best ever at like sometimes not offering grace and forgiveness. Much respect. But I just have to say that.
ReplyDelete; )
Yup, I and my friends thought the same thing, we figured it was all a set up by Kanye West in order to make someone’s career grow or prevent from going down…that’s Hollywood for you!!! Nothing is ever real expect maybe for some “real life” shows/reality shows, but even those, I’m sure, are edited to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteOops I just started judging people for judging judgers. That's just ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI think this is one of your best posts.
ooh, once again I come expecting something funny and get shot through the heart. Good one man.
ReplyDeleteThe word verification is nogify. That is a hilarious sounding word.
My favorite thing you said definitely is "If we all had our worst mistakes televised we'd give Kanye West grace instead of hate.”
ReplyDeleteForget about Kanye -- I mean we would stop judging others as a whole. Thanks -- this was great. I get where you are coming from and it's all true!
Enjoy your blog. Got the link on our blog, the wartburg watch. HOw little today's churches and rock star pastors seem to understand about grace! May we be the change agents.
ReplyDeleteBlessings
Dee
I'm so out of the loop I don't even know who Kanye and Taylor are but the message of your post was one I need to be reminded of often. Thank you! God Bless!
ReplyDeleteI love me some Kanye West. And this was a great post. I read about half of the comments, but then gave up.
ReplyDelete