Here's the thing Amy, turns out I'm perfect. I know, surprising, right? True, there was some sin in my life in the fall of 1997 and then again during Labor Day weekend in 2001, but those days are long gone. I’m flawless and I thought you were too. I thought you were one of us, but then you went and got a divorce.
Soooo, I had to stop listening to your music. It was bad enough that in the video for your pop crossover hit, "Baby, Baby," you agreed to dance around with some dude as if the song was about loving a guy when all your real fans, the people that have supported you through thick and thin, knew that wasn't the real meaning of the song. That's when I first got nervous that you might actually be human. But as a diehard fan I cut you some slack, approximately .2 inches of slack.
But then you got divorced and married Vince Gill. Apparently you forgot you’re a role model Amy, not a human.
Sure, I could see how this approach might help create a Christian culture where we put famous Christians on pedestals. I could see how this might encourage our leaders to never admit small mistakes. I can understand how this might help contribute to prominent Christians lying about the little things for fear of losing my attention until finally those little things stack up and fall over, crushing the leader under the weight of decades of secret sin and stunning his followers who never saw a single crack in an otherwise perfect façade. But I didn’t say being perfect was easy. I just said I expected it.
I got rid of all of your CDs. Don't worry, I didn't burn them. I learned my lesson the hard way in high school when I destroyed all of my music after getting really fired up after a retreat. A month later I started buying the same CDs again when the fervor of the retreat wore off. (Again, a fairly dark period of my life that involved repurchasing and throwing away the Bangles, “Walk like an Egyptian” and perhaps even wearing my sunglasses at night, so I can, so I can, see the light that's right between my eyes.)
Nope, instead of throwing away your music I just put you in my "judging box" in my closet under the stairs. That's where I keep the things that I might need to keep my eye on for the next few years. If you want to earn your way out of there I suggest a documentary about how you blew it. Maybe an apology concert of some sort and perhaps one more television show where you make the dreams of the less fortunate come true. Only this time, make sure it's on TBN and not NBC Amy. You're not going to earn your way out of the judging box with a show on any of the major "netjerks." (wordplay!)
I love that you put her in you "judging box", which implies that you will keep judging her. Brilliant. I for one put people in the "judged box". I'm too lazy to keep it going.
ReplyDeleteWho else is in your "judging box" I'm curious to ask..?
ReplyDeleteWhat a great way to look at what we're told in scripture:
ReplyDeleteWhen you put things in the judgement box, you too will sit there.
By the way, what sort of mental gymnastics does it take to rationalize that "Baby, Baby" is about God? Is "Baby" a title for God that I somehow missed?
There was a rumor that the song "So Long my Friend" by DC Talk was talking about her. I doubt it's true.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, I agree with this post 101%. Even this morning, I was reading about that wee little man of a tax collector in a tree. He probably didn't start out wanting to cheat people. But one day, he may have said, "Wow, I made an extra $200 by taking $20 from the eight houses I visited. That's an extra $1,200 a week. $4,800 a month!"
We can say things like, "I would never do that" or "I can't believe they did that!" But truthfully, we can fall into any of those things ourselves. It was tempting to judge Jon and Kate, especially Jon and say, "What a selfish father!" But then I look at my own life and think about all the times I'm playing world of warcrack, neglecting spending time with my family.
"Lord, I'll die with you." "Sure, in time, but you're going to deny me three times today..."
lol, $20 x 8 = $160 not $200, I fail...
ReplyDeleteI remember when that whole Amy Grant thing happened. I was still young-ish, so it kinda did blow my mind, not being overly acquainted with all the statistics I am now.
ReplyDeleteGood times?
Well wrote John.
ReplyDeleteNic,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your sentiments, but come on...Kate's a total biyatch, (sorry, I sneezed) we all know it, and I think we should give John some sort of trophy for lasting as long as he did. So what if he has an Ed Hardy addiction, (world, please let go of the Ed Hardy/Christian Audigier thing, it's getting ridiculous) He still tried, and dealing with her isn't a task I'd wish on any man.
Now I'm going to go sit in the closet under my stairs and judge some other stuff...see you tomorrow.
One night I was out with some friends and was gossiping about Amy as we walked from the parking lot to the theater. I turned around and guess who was getting out of her car....with her children....Amy Grant herself. Ouch. I'm pretty sure she didn't hear me but wow was I embarrassed and ashamed. Amy, I'm very sorry for bashing you! Your music helped me through some tough teenage years and even now makes me smile.
ReplyDeleteow.......gosh, that log in my own eye hurts when i turn my head too fast....
ReplyDeletewv: fantsti
This post is fantsti......
I think sometimes our mistakes are corporate - elevating certain Christians higher than they ought to be is something we do, so to a certain degree if/when their mistakes start to get on top of them, its partly our fault for placing them beyond reproach.
ReplyDeleteI'm new to this Christ Follower thing, and so didn't really care one way or the other about Amy Grant ('cause I only knew her as the "Baby, Baby" singer--wasn't it about her baby?)
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm sure I'm in lots of people's boxes...I need to make sure mine stays empty. It's hard, it is a BIG box.
*cough* Ray Boltz.
ReplyDeleteYou never cease to amaze me, Jon. (in a really good way, of course)
ReplyDeleteI always put those people who judged AG in my own judging box...interesting how it becomes a vicious cycle isn't it?
Forgiving and FORGETTING takes so much less energy.
This is a great one! I think lately instead of Amy Grant it has been John and Kate Plus 8. The Christian Radio station in our area used to Rave on and on about that show....until the divorce happened. Now you don't hear a peep about it. Not even a "Pray for this family and the children stuck in the middle of it all!"
ReplyDeleteMichael English
ReplyDeleteOh dear...I have to admit that, at the title, my mind very quickly jumped to, "But, I haven't forgiven any other Christian singers for making bad music either..."
ReplyDeleteI once read a quote somewhere -- and I can't find the source -- that was applicable to this situation. It was on a "secular" blog when the whole John and Kate thing was starting to go south, and it was something like this:
ReplyDelete"If you think Christians are vehement when they get behind someone, you should see what happens when they change their minds."
If we couldn't listen to something because it was made by someone who sins, then we couldn't listen to anyone.
I guess as long as they keep it secret, we're fine ...
This one is so good! But about "Baby Baby"...do we actually want that song to be about God? Wouldn't it'd be kind of gross that she's calling him "baby"? It's like that South Park episode where Cartman forms a Christian band and replaces "baby" in secular songs with "Jesus." But of course, there is that post about how much we want secular music to be Christian...when sometimes it just doesn't work out, ha.
ReplyDelete@ Mella DP - Well said, lol. I think that's the unpardonable sin. It's in the bible somewhere...
ReplyDeleteThe whole point with her is she has never asked for forgiveness because she believed God "released her" from her marriage.
ReplyDeleteWe still should forgive whether she asks or not, but forgiveness doesn't mean being best friends again either....in any relationship. Choices have consequences, and her consequences may have lasted longer that she "strategized."
Do I need to go clean out my judging box?
Oh I laughed out loud, because its funny, but its also so so so true. Love this post.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a difference between judging someone and saying,
ReplyDelete"I'm better than them and don't sin and would never fall into that sort of sin" (you know, the sort of attitude that makes satan do the robot ;) ),
and saying that perhaps someone, through the choices they made, isn't the person you are going to look to as a spiritual role model anymore. Amy Grant did leave her husband for another man, on her own confession, and that is a sin. There's a difference between saying wow she's the worst person ever and thinking that you have the right to judge her heart, or saying she's not a Christian anymore, and maybe not being super excited to buy her worship/gospel albums anymore. I see where you're coming from because I imagine people got nasty, which isn't cool. But we also have to call sin a sin, or at the very least say this is not God's best for us as a church.
I immediately thought of Ray Boltz when I read this. I'd love to hear your take on that Jon! How quickly would you forgive him for coming out of the closet?
ReplyDeleteFunny stuff! Well done, my friend.
Grrrrr!!!!
ReplyDeleteI hate the judgement olympics!
And as soon as I say forgive, someone else is going to pipe in and say that we are held to a higher standard - yada, yada, yada...
Yes, we are. I just find it annoying that people are so quick to drink the Haterade. (Hey, that's the 2nd time I've used that word this morning!)
thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this!
ReplyDeletefor starteres, "baby, baby" is not supposed to be about God ... it's supposed to be about her daughter, millie.
#1 i think the big issue was not the divorce itself, but the reason everyone assumes the divorce happened ... but we all know what happens when you assume. in one of my less proud moments, i was involved in an emotional affair, so my favorite thing is when i'm in a group of people the starts damning amy to hell for doing the same thing ... at least i'll be in good company.
#2 sylvia, and anyone else ... the people who say she hasn't asked for forgiveness are the ones who haven't bothered to give her the time of day since it happened. if you continued following her career (reading articles & her book, listening to her music) then you would know forgiveness has been sought.
#3 in Christian circles, it seems the public nature of your fall from glory is indirectly correlated to the amount of grace you will receive ... jaci valasquez vs. amy grant, for example. if you fly under the radar then you will get back "in" much faster.
all that being said, i clearly need to work on not judging the judgers ... thanks beckeyz, for that reminder.
Jarrod- Are you serious? Bashing Kate because her husband is cheating on her with college girls? Oh wait...she deserved it, right? Come on.
ReplyDeleteI must admit it's hard for me to look at Jon anymore. But when I think about it, he needs my prayers more than my judgement. Somewhere a long the way, he thought it was OK to live la vida loca while his wife and kids were at home. I pray that he wakes up before it's too late. And while Kate has issues, she didn't deserve that. I must admit, this couple has really challenged my "judging box". That being said, when you as a Christ follower, put yourself out there, much will be required of you. That's why it's so important to have accountability and people in your life who will point you to God and not tell you what you want to hear.
I love that image of the "Judging box", as if it's something we put on a shelf and choose to judge the contents daily.
ReplyDeleteIf we're sitting staring at a box all day, who are we punishing?
VERY well written, good job!
ReplyDeleteThe "baby" was her new daughter Millie.
You mean we need to forgive "those people" Geez, how dare they go and blow it in front of everyone. Yep I remember this and Michael English, and Sandi Patti, and....
ReplyDeleteGreat post and I too love the judging box thing.
Judging box?? I actually have a "sense of humour" box. I do - really. Its an old, wooden box, about 10x7x7 inches, which my brother bought me, nearly 20 years ago. I didn't know what to do with it - so I put it on the bookshelf where it stood empty. After an argument, the origin of which is long forgiven and forgotten, my husband deemed it to be "Sally's-sense-of-humour-box". I think the point of that was that it was empty therefore I have no sense of humour.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it's still known as my sense of humour box and after several house-moves, still stands emptily, forlornly, on the shelf.
If you think this sounds mad, I think it's better than having willow tree figures on the bookshelf.
Sylvia, Who are you to say what happened in her marriage? Who are you to say what God's call is in her life? I'm not saying you have to buy her music - I never have and I doubt I ever will - but the attitude that we, as people totally uninvolved in the situation are entitled to some sort of apology or know everything that occurred within her marriage is ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Jarrod, there probably is no good place to be using curse words in reference to women (or anyone, really), but, if there was a good place, this is not it.
Don't know if you've ever spent all day taking care of eight very young children, but as a former day care worker, I can tell you that dealing with multiple toddlers for 9 hours a day is one of the most stressful things you can ever do. I can't imagine what Kate went through doing it 24 hours a day, non-stop. I'd wager that you've never been in her shoes. Let's keep that in mind, ok?
@Nic- I always thought that DC Talk song was about the "first DC Talk member to stray and not live the Christian life"- like they were writing it to their future selves...that's what I was told...
ReplyDelete@Anon 6:41 what's the deal with Jaci Valesquez?
Also on the Jon and Kate issue- it takes two to tango. Stop blaming one or the other. The Bible tells wives to submit to their husbands, and husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church. When we fail to live our marriage out as we are commanded, sin happens.
I'm not buying your book unless you appologize.
ReplyDelete@Jarrod, leaving your wife is one thing. Going off to San Tropez with a 22 year old while your 8 children are trying to figure out why you and their mom are living apart is another entirely.
ReplyDeletePoor Amy Grant. I always felt for her in all of this.
needs to confess... while I still love some of Amy's stuff and I never relegated her albums to a judging box... I am still kind of mad at her... not because of my Christian beliefs, but because I was a huge Gary Chapman fan, and never could figure out why she would leave Gary for Vince (ick!), but I try not to, and if I ever met her I would be very polite...
ReplyDeleteMy grandmother on the other hand, Amy should be thankful she never met... My grandmother was an even bigger fan of Gary (watched Prime Time Country every night) and would have given Amy a royal chewing out about how she mistreated "that nice boy Gary"
(I do want to acknowledge here that I recognize that neither myself nor my grandmother knew all that went on, and I do not in actuality believe that Gary was not to blame, but considering he was the one we were fans of, and he was the one who didn't want the divorce, its hard at times not to assume that he was the one who was wronged in this situation)
I performed a dance routine to Amy's "Baby Baby" in my fourth grade talent show. My Heart In Motion tape definitely got less play time after the divorce. I'm still working to forgive her...
ReplyDeleteI had to laugh at the title of this. I remember my mother being furious at how quickly the local Christian radio station "forgave" Amy Grant and started playing her music again, and even played her secular stuff because she used to "do Christian music." But to this day they refuse to play any of Sandi Patti's music. I gave up calling them a Christian radio station when they started playing the Beatles and Daughtry though. I have found much more "holy" stations to listen to where I am "fed" well...
ReplyDeleteLeave Amy Grant Alone says it all eh? Yes, I did just quote Lust Control. Yep, and remember that, to me, Christian rock = oxymoron, so there.
ReplyDeleteYep, there r so many more we could have trotted out and thrown stones at...but I think some of you mayhave forgotten this is sarcasm.
It isn't about Amy, it's about how we expect some Christians to be not only above reproach, but absolutely perfect. And when we see that they, like us, goof up pretty sucktacularly (to borrow a word from PJ), it upsets us because we thought they were the yardstick when Jesus is really the yardstick we're supposed to measure by.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Carrie:
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm not serious. That was kind of the point. Nic first, and then myself, were referencing OTHER people/areas where we tend to judge. He took her side, so I took his. The fact is, we have no right to offer opinions one way or the other unless we have personally spent time with them ourselves. At which point, we wouldn't discuss it in a public forum anyways.
But I WAS serious about the Ed Hardy stuff, it's soooooo last summer;)
@Amelia:
Actually, I think if you leave your wife and children at all, you're pretty well hosed, the rest is superfluous. But yes, it did look pretty bad in the tabloids.
@Anonymous 7:13
I totally agree with you, that's why it was just a sneeze, forgot the ooooo's at the end of it...my bad. And I would totally sneeze at John Gosselin too, so it's not just an anti-woman thing. At least I didn't call her a melon farmer.
As for raising children, well, when I was 11 my mother died, and I was left to raise my six younger brothers and sisters while my father worked to put food on the table. It was a hard time for all of us, but we were able to make it through. So yes, I understand very well the struggles one goes through taking care of children 24 hours a day.
(Yeah, I totally made that last part up, but it just seemed to fit the dialogue so well;) I have a couple of godchildren that I watch once in a while though, does that count?)
All in jest fellow commentors. I didn't intend to take things too far with the sneeze, and I apologize. I'm just surprised by the strong emotions evoked by John and Kate at all. I wish them both the best, and for the sake of the children I hope they pull the plug on their show asap.
Ok, I get that you are using that particular situation to show us that we do that too often to anyone that we hold in high esteem. It could be a Christian artist, actor, preacher, author, political figure or someone closer to us. All are human and live in the same imperfect world we do. Too often we think of others as more Godly and incapable of having troubled spots...then when that happens we condemn them and act as though we have no problems whatsoever. Good post, Jon.
ReplyDeleteThat's ME...I'm in a lot of people's judging box....I was the Amy Grant at my church 10 years ago...most of them have forgiven me...some haven't and its really awkward.
ReplyDeleteI never thought to put Amy in my "judging box" and now its too late...Mel Gibson filled that thing up last year!
ReplyDeleteI got rid of my entire collection of Beatles records when I became a Christian. Wish I still had them--bet they'd be worth some money!!
ReplyDeleteIf I ever meet Amy Grant in person, I'm either going to:
ReplyDelete1. Be so nervous all I say is "uh...
or
2. Forgive her even though she didn't really apologize.
Why in the world would you forgive someone who's never done anything to harm you? Someone you don't even know?.... Pray for her/him/them, yes. But forgive? Isn't that a bit presumptuous?
ReplyDeleteUm, it's hilarious and sad to me that a lot of commenters are actually still judging Amy Grant really, really hard. Maybe we should stop putting public figures on pedestals. I've totally done it, but it's something that probably needs to stop. Even Mother Teresa wasn't the deity people try to paint her as; she had moments of "spiritual darkness" for a significant portions of her life.
ReplyDeleteUmm, I don't get it. I never was into her music or CCM gossip in general, but people really judged her for getting a divorce? Do people not realize that divorce among Christians are just as common as among non Christians?
ReplyDeleteAs always, nice post.
I think that is the point of the post...that Christians really do judge each other and they shouldn't be....if we are no longer under God's wrath, why should we be recipients of each other's wrath?
ReplyDeleteJon,are you serious? Who are you to judge anyone? And you think you're perfect? Spoken like a teenager who doesn' get that life is messy. Be careful of the pedestal on which you sit. The fall will be far.
ReplyDeleteLove this post. Maybe you can also write a post about how Christians like to pretend that their judgement of a celebrity who they have never met is somehow justified because we are all a part of the body of Christ. I guess it's ok as long as we add on "in Christian love" at the end...
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way, I was a huge Amy Grant fan growing up. I met her once and she couldn't have been more lovely, taking time to meet each fan after her show.
I've never "forgiven" Amy Grant, because as far as I'm concerned, what ever she did is none of my beezwax. That's between her, the Lord, and someone else. She owes nothing to me or to anyone else.
ReplyDeleteThis just goes to show that Christians are little different from anyone else, despite our pretensions of being different. This includes Christian "celebrities" who "fall", as well as average Christians like you and me who put them on the pedestal in the first place, dump high expectations on them, and then get mad when they don't live up to them--as if we could live up to those same expectations. This is why people mock Christianity, and it's why I abandoned conservative, evangelical Christianity decades ago. I got tired of the perpetual hypocrisy, and I've learned to accept myself and others and to abandon all expectations of perfection.
Um, Kay from Houston, I think you somehow managed to miss the sarcasm dripping from Jon's post...
ReplyDeleteI was a JERK about the whole Amy Grant thing. I was 12-13 when she reached her zenith with Age to Age. Everyone I knew at the time practically idolized her. Her divorce rattled my 28 year old undivorced world.
ReplyDeleteI was an idiot to get so mad at her. No one knows both sides of the story except them. I now fully embrace her music and love her like I used to. Just because I never sin doesn't mean other people can keep up with me.
Kay in Houston, that last sentence was for you.
@Kay From Houston
ReplyDeleteNo, Jon is not being serious. Again, the web site is satire. He used hyperbolic judgmentalism to show us how ridiculous and un-Christian it is to judge someone like Amy Grant--or anyone for that matter.
Jon, you really need a warning at the top of the site saying that Wednesdays are the only serious days.
However, the irony of someone judging you for using faux-judgmentalism to discourage judging was fairly enjoyable. You teenager you.
I sinfully continued to listen to Amy. My forgiver in me got bigger when I was forgiven BIG! Heck I still like to listen to the Dixie Chicks but my hubby through them out the window going 75 mph so they aren't hanging out in a box around here. Ha!
ReplyDeleteSpot on judgment Kay!
ReplyDeleteI could feel the fire from the Spirit all the way over here in the United Arab Emirates which is approximately 8 billion miles from Houston.
8 billion miles is pretty far, but still not quite as far as that fall from the pedestal. Check yourself before you wreck yourself Jon.
Sigh.
ReplyDeletePlenty of Christians have divorced and remarried. Some reasons are kosher, some aren't. I am not privy to the reasons. Some things need ot be left between the couple and God.
I'm torn. Jon, I guess I would like you to elaborate on Amy's stance on infidelity and some other statements she made.
ReplyDeleteI will not argue against forgiveness, but are you suggesting we turn a blind eye?
Can we talk about the difference between judging someone and holding someone accountable. There is a difference, you know.
ReplyDeletei had a similar experience to your "destroy your music retreat" experience. only it came to my small christian college. i have pics of me and my destroyed cds and *gasp* tapes! i now own most of the music i destroyed and am a bit embarrassed at how much i allowed my emotions to be manipulated.
ReplyDeleteAnother post that seriously makes me laugh until my sides ache.
ReplyDeleteAmy was my first concert ever. I had a little pink boom box when I was 8 or 9 and used to make up dance routines with my friends and dance in my backyard.
Oh, how bad it felt when my mom told me "Amy doesnt love Jesus anymore."
You're the best.
Question - since when is it OUR job to forgive Amy, or expect her to ask US for forgiveness?
ReplyDeleteJarrod- I think I get what you were saying. And I agree with the Ed Hardy comment. That line of clothing is getting really old :)
ReplyDeleteI think women took more offense that you used a "alternative form" of the b-word to describe a woman than the Jon and Kate stuff. I do agree with you they need to pull the plug on that show ASAP. No matter who's to blame (only God knows that), my heart does break for them because so much damage is being done to their family.
I think that too often times when people "enter into" the Christian life, it's much like walking into a Fun House. Let the grand illusions of self begin! Images are bent and twisted... contorted to extremes. We expect out of others, what we wouldn't expect out of ourselves.
ReplyDeleteWatching Christians fall, has become a spectator sport for the church. Pure entertainment for the secular community.
But I suspect that the same Jesus who picks "us normal folk" up and dusts us off after we've stumbled and fallen to our knees... is the same Jesus who forgives and loves and nurtures those "bigger than life celebs" who fall from grace on occasion.
Shouldn't we be as forgiving and loving?
Condemnation isn't going to make a wounded soul well. That wasn't Jesus's way when He walked this earth healing those he touched. He applied "salve", and understanding. He changed lives through his healing love. Even the adulteress..
Shouldn't this be our response to brothers and sisters who fall (even big falls)? To be a part of the healing process.
And uhhh, here's a question for you. How do you expect to get the good meaty stuff out of an egg, if you don't break the shell first?
How is God going to use us, if he doesn't "break us open" first?
"Psalm 51:17 (NIV) The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise."
Personally speaking: Just from my observations ~ I can't think of a more broken spirit than one whose marriage just went through the wringer. Can you?
I am too lazy to read all of these comments. I think you should get 50 points for each person who doesn't get that this was satirical and meant to make a point about judgment and how its dumb... redeemable at any local grocery store for free skittles :).
ReplyDeleteWV: podst- the most pod of them all (pronounced pod-est).
When I dated Vince Gill I was all whatever about him. Guess Amy got my sloppy seconds.
ReplyDeletei have a perma-crush on amy grant. she can do no wrong.
ReplyDeleteChristians always shoot their wounded.
ReplyDeleteA sin is a sin, whether it's getting divorced or being judgmental.
None of this invalidates the value of her music. Christians need to get over themselves.
Is this not what that show on tv a few years back "Judging Amy" was all about? Because if it wasnt, I'm really confused!
ReplyDelete@Tommy
ReplyDeleteThat was hilarious! A+
@Carrie
Yeah, that probably wasn't my best choice of words. Again, I apologize.
It gets even stranger in the Christian bookstore environment where this a steady parade of merchandise coming and going from the front display to a box on the floor in the stockroom.
ReplyDeleteBTW, anybody interested in some Jon and Kate books?
When Amy Grant got divorced I remember hearing rumors that she "smokes pot now too!" So if you weren't already mad about her divorce then you really weren't going to buy music from a pot smoker! So funny!
ReplyDeleteAs a divorced woman, I am the first to tell you that people in the church JUDGE you for being divorced. I know it is 2009 and difficult in this day and age to believe, but it is the truth.
Now I need to research what Jaci V., Sandy P. and Ray B. all did that was so bad!
Ooh, looks like I've been put in a couple of judging boxes myself ;-)
ReplyDeleteI have long since forgiven her.
ReplyDeleteShe had one of the most gangsta lines ever sung/spoken in a song:
"I will praise You until I die."
Anyone willing to even mutter those words in the presence of the Almighty God gets a pass in my book.
I wasn't disappointed with her being human and sinning, but it did disappoint me that I never heard her voice any repentance. And I'm not saying she didn't. Maybe she did and I just missed it.
ReplyDeleteIf God is against divorce, and both parties were Christian, I find it hard to believe that he "released" her from the marriage. But I pass no judgment...that is left to God.
Sara..Sandy Patty committed adultery and I believe she divorced too. Ray Boltz came out of the closet. He's a homosexual. As for Jaci V...haven't a clue.
ReplyDeleteIm unsure about why you wrote this and if you are being sarcastic or not. EVERYONE is human and i think we should rember that. If you truly are a christian then you shouldn't be judging her. Thats Gods job. I hate to be uncool, but we arnt perfect and shouldn't expect others to be either. God Bless
ReplyDeleteRich Mullins and cigarettes.
ReplyDeletePut THAT in your judging box and smoke it.
Once again, fabulous, fabulous article, Jon, and, again, God has used what you've written to speak to me.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing Amy owes to her fans is an acknowledgement that she recognizes she shares the blame with Gary for why their marriage went sour, and she only owes that because she is seen as a role model, and thanks for their support throughout her career. Beyond that, she owes John and Jane Q. Christian Public absolutely nothing. She sinned against God and Gary. Period, end of story. I don't know what happened with Jaci and the others listed, but unless their sins involve embezzling concert and merchandise funds or something else where those they sinned against include the fanbase, they owe us nothing more than Amy Grant does.
I feel for Jon and Kate, and especially for the kids. I know pretty much only what I've been able to read between the lines of the magazine and tabloid headlines (read: Jon was busted with another woman and they're currently divorcing). It's hard enough when your private life remains private, but to have every shred of it splashed across multiple publications and have more than a few of them warping, twisting, distorting, and outright fabricating embellishment makes it a kind of living nightmare must make things a living nightmare beyond what I can possibly imagine. If Jon was cheating on Kate, then I've no sympathy for him that the truth was dragged into the light. Whatever's going on, I'm sorry things have ended up where they are and I'm sure all the media glare and nonstop attention contributed to it, and those who are judging them need a reminder to get their own house in order before ragging on someone else about their own standards of housekeeping. If we're unfit to judge friends of 30+ years, then we're definitely unfit to be judging couples and families we only see for an hour or two each week on television. We, as Christians, need to pull our noses out of business that is not ours and start praying for the children and that God would use everything that's going on for His glory and to bring Jon and Kate and everyone else caught up in things closer to Him. We can also use this an an opportunity to take a good, hard, honest look at our own lives and deal with the lumber yards that are our eyes. ;)
eerrrgggghhh...
ReplyDeleteThis topic and the comments are somewhat distressing. One of the reasons I read blogs like SCL is to get the taste of secular culture out of my mouth. Just reading the magazine covers in the grocery store is enough to make one sick of Jon and Kate plus 8 and Amy Grant and Vince Gill too.
Is this really worth discussing?
Seriously?
I totally agree with your excellent sarcastic point. Some things i need to ponder, (cause you just never know when you might become a Christian thousandaire) how responsible are big name Christian artists and speakers for allowing themselves to be considered celebrities? Is it possible to have global impact and protray yourself as really just another part of the Body of Christ? Are humility and fame antithesis?
ReplyDeleteAnd if one cultivates the "celebrity Christian" status to further their ministry or bank account, is being put into the judging box part of the consequences of sin?
Long time reader, first time poster.
ReplyDeleteI was obsessed with Amy Grant when I was young, and my heart broke when I saw her cavorting with someone considerably un-Gary-Chapman-looking fellow.
Only recently did I pull "Lead Me On" out of the garage and put it on, and I had completely forgotten how stellar that record is.
Great post.
de
http://skyfidelity.tumblr.com
When I heard that Amy was getting a divorce, I think the reason I found it difficult to process was because of her music. It just didn't add up but then not everyone sings songs from their heart. They sing because they can, I believe. Nonetheless, what really helps me if I get anywhere close to the judging box is to remind myself "There, but for the Grace of God, go I." I can't even pick up a stone to throw here. Sorry!
ReplyDeleteDear Jon (Acuff),
ReplyDeleteMaybe now you know how Jonathan Swift must have felt when "A Modest Proposal" came out. Satire is hard for some folks to digest.
Attitudes like those toward Amy Grant and other divorced people are the reason I was scared to death to tell any of my friends from church that my parents had separated.
ReplyDeleteLooking back, I'm sure they knew - but for the entire first year, I refused to say a word about it. Sad that a 12 year-old kid would feel that she has nowhere to turn in the middle of a major family crisis.
Just remember - when we judge others, children are listening...
For those questioning about Jaci...she got divorced and remarried as well.
ReplyDeleteI was never allowed to listen to Amy because my mom didn't like her music. However I loved Sandi and was disappointed when my mom decided to "ditch" her due to her personal life. Twila Paris as well. I kinda feel the whole, "Hate the sin, love the music" thing applies!
I forgot to mention: As far as I can tell, the rumors about Twila were just that: rumors! But before the internet, mom had no way to check 'em out so she just took the rumors at face value (not trying to put mom down here--love her to pieces!).
ReplyDeleteGood post! All goes back to the scales of justice and what we deem as forgiveable and non-forgivable. That's bull crap, people! Move your mind up. Move forward. And move out of the way. Praise God for second chances. Praise God for wholeness. Quit talking about the past - move forward with His grace in the present baby. And after all, that's what love is for!
ReplyDeleteI think she handled the whole thing all wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is that Amy Grant's managers, agency, concert promoters, record label, etc. MARKETED her as perfect. They made money off it. They do this idolatry to every artist they sign on - AG was just an extreme case.
ReplyDeleteSo when does the CCM industry get let out of the Judging Box?
Jon:
ReplyDeleteI got the humor and it was striking as always, but this post pushed my buttons. So I have finally posted a response on my blog: SoJourn (www.amanofconstantsorrow.blogspot.com).
I really appreciate what you do and you are not in my "judging box"
I remember seeing Amy Grant in concert during the period when her marriage was falling apart but it wasn't public knowledge. I'm saying this with hindsight because she didn't talk about it. What she did say, in two different contexts was "Life is short." And from listening to her albums over the years and from interviews, it appeared her marriage to Gary Chapman was not easy. She probably decided, "Life is too short to be married to the wrong man when the right man is here." The fact that both she and Vince had to divorce their spouses to be together, is troubling. But I sure know I have done things that are troubling to the Lord too. If you listen to her later music, especially "Innocence Lost" on Simple Things, she is very sorrowful and aware of the damage done, even if she is happier now. Amy Grant was the first Christian artist I ever bought, the first whose music you could listen without embarrassment, the maker of some of the best Christian music ever, and the one who paved the way for just about every crossover and CCM artist to follow. I am still a fan.
ReplyDeleteI went to an Amy Grant concert in 2004 and my youth minister told me not to since she wouldn't be worshipping God. Thankfully we ignored him. It was a great concert!
ReplyDeleteI still have one of Amy's cassette tapes in my car, listening to her when I was a young child helped me through alot of darkness in my life... and now, I listen to her and God brings peace...
ReplyDeleteThank you Amy!
Though I see your point, Amy Grant was never repentant. She never apologized. She justified the whole thing. Over and over and over.
ReplyDeleteWhatever happened to post #579--
"Forgiving people who don't apologize?"
Frankly, I don't think that Amy Grant needs our forgiveness. What happened is between God, Gary, Vince and her.
ReplyDelete...however... there are often still earthly consequences for sin, even after repentance and heavenly forgiveness has occurred. Sometimes God can mercifully choose to wipe out some of those consequences, sometimes He lets us deal with them. It's His choice, whatever His reasons. I am dealing with earthly consequences of past sin, and so are you.
In Amy's case, she lost some of her Christian singer role model "status." I don't necessarily think it was due to a bunch of Christians "judging" her... rather than quite a number of them saying, "Um, Amy, I feel a little bit icky listening to your Christian love songs, knowing you and Vince just left your spouses for each other."
This may be off-topic, but I have a suggestion for a future post:
ReplyDelete"Gluttony Being a 'Safe' Sin to Confess"
I don't know how many churches this applies to, but I've noticed it quite a bit in the churches I've attended. When a pastor is discussing sin and temptation, and he wants to level with the congregation by confessing to his own vices, gluttony is usually the default, with envy and pride coming in as distant runners-up. And why not? It's doesn't relate to the congregation's tithes the way greed and sloth do ("What are we giving him our money for anyways?"), it's not controversial and creepy like lust, it's not uncomfortable and scary like wrath.
audience.
So a good time is had by all (with a minimal smidgen of guilt) when the pastor relates to his sheep the tales of his dances with donuts.
Oops...ignore that random word "audience" in the previous post. Delete Button folly.
ReplyDeleteI think Amy doesn't owe us anything, but if I were her I would take time to realize that no matter how inappropriate her fan's expectations were, they really admired her because she was talented and stood for something: God and his message, and that people should accept his message. Consequently, her fans were "hurt" by having their expectations "let down." However inappropriate those expectations were in the first place, a simple, "I was wrong. I'm a sinner. Look at Jesus, please don't look at me. Please pray for me to be more like Jesus and more obedient to his commands," would go a long way toward gaining "public forgiveness" just like politicians do.
ReplyDeletePS. About that Baby, Baby video... one of my buddies said at the time: "I don't think you're supposed to lust while watching a Christian video."
I glad someone finally talked about this. Okay, someone I actually read. My dad worked in Christian radio at the time of the divorce and his station made the horrifying mistake of asking Amy Grant to headline a concert. You would have thought they'd invited Hitler opening for the Anti-Christ hosting a puppy-kicking festival for all the hateful calls they received.
ReplyDeleteIt made me see that all music sells an image.
Rock: sex & drugs and rockandroll
Country: homeboy done good.
Hiphop: homeboy done good with lots of bling.
And Contemp Christian music sells the image, like you said Jon, of perfect idols. The instant the veneer is cracked we want to throw them to the wolves, because under that alabaster veneer is tasty, tasty meat. It's almost as bad as a rock star getting saved and going to rehab before they hit rock bottom.
If people like her music they shouldn't have stopped listening to it just because they feel she let them down.
I on the other hand don't listen to her because I think that softrock stuff sucks.
Yeah....I don't....
ReplyDeleteShe didn't sin against me so I don't think I have to forgive Amy Grant.
That doesn't mean I have to support her life-style decisions either...