If the Stuff Christians Like book sells well I’m probably going to fund an event called “The Church Olympics.” The competitions will range from VBS scissor skills to prayer shot blocking to palm branch sword fighting. There will be dozens of events but the one that I think will draw the most spectators?
“The complain off.”
In this thrilling bout of athletic prowess, each church that enters the Olympics will put forth their greatest grumbler. They will find their best complainer, the person who is never happy, never tired of whining and forever spreading verbal vinegar or paragraphs of poison and then put them on top of a platform. The platform will be ten feet high and will be sticking out of a pool of Miracle Whip and Cinnabons. (Miracle Whip is like mayonnaise’s underachieving cousin and Cinnabons smell roughly 900% better than they actually taste. So as they’re falling the loser will briefly think they’re about to land in a delicious cinnamon roll. Nope. Just a Cinnabon slathered with Miracle Whip.)
Each person will yell their best church-flavored complaints at the other person until only one is left standing.
I try to be a pretty positive person most days but I could probably win this event. Know why? Because I know the greatest church complaint ever – “I’m not being fed right now.”
That is the worst because it’s one of those complaints designed to inflict hurt while at the same time making you look super spiritual. And every time I hear someone say it, I want to ask three things:
1. Are you doing the simple things right now?
When people say, “I’m not being fed,” what they’re really saying is, “This church is too surface for me. These sermons are too simple. I want to dig into the meat of the Scriptures. I want to explore the deeper mysteries of God.” And at the heart of it, desiring to explore God and dive deeper into who He is can be a wonderful thing. But when we get drunk on the idea of “not being fed,” we often skip right over the “simple things” and focus instead on the “complex things.” We lose sight of the simple things like “loving our neighbors” and “being salt and light.” So when someone tells you, “I’m not being fed,” ask them how they’re doing on the simple things. Ask them if they feel like they’ve completed the “easy things” like loving God and loving others and are therefore ready to move on to the meatier topics.
2. Who are YOU feeding?
"I’m not being fed” is such a “take” statement. It’s about me making sure my needs are met in my life and taking what you’re giving to do that. But if the desire to get fed is truly from God, there should be a large degree of giving present in the person’s life. If feeding is important to them, there should be evidence of them feeding other people. Even if you feel like the sermons are too simple, have you shared that simplicity with people at work who don’t go to church? Are you feeding people further down the line from you? Are you taking the small seed of knowledge you feel like you received and scattering that in your neighborhood, your community, your workplace? If the answer is no, then you’re not really into feeding. You’re into devouring. Devouring things for yourself, and that’s completely different than feeding.
3. Is this something the Pharisees would do?
I think this is a litmus question we should ask ourselves constantly. If I took the complaint, “I’m not being fed,” and placed it in the New Testament, who would be saying it? Is that something Jesus and the disciples would say to each other, or is that something the Pharisees (old school religious law zealots) would say? If the little Pharisee on your shoulder ever chimes in, “Great point. Thanks for letting everyone know how we feel,” about something you’ve said, you’ve got a problem.
Ultimately, a member of your church might blow off all three questions and still beat the “I’m not being fed” drum loudly and proudly through the halls. These are not silver bullets, and depending on how deeply someone is in a complaining funk, they might ignore a thousand questions you ask them.
But if they refuse to listen to you, the least you can do is make sure they enter the Stuff Christians Like Church Olympics. Who knows, you might think they’re an amazing complainer but maybe there’s a dude in Ohio whose complaints are so solid your friend will end up waste deep in a pool of Miracle Whip. Which in a weird way is win-win for you.
As long as you're not feeding them fish I'm not complaining.
ReplyDelete<-SB><
Some people aren't happy unless they are complaining. Sad reality but I've met a few folks like that. They're not happy if unless they're miserable and it seems they make it their mission in life to make those around them just as miserable. I can see where they get that expression "misery loves company".
ReplyDeleteI didn't know this was serious Wednesday! :o) Nicely put Jon. I really enjoy your riotously funny entries but I gotta admit, the hard hitting ones are just as great. Thanks for sharing your insight. I may not say it out loud often, but these questions made me think about my own attitudes too (but please don't ruin Cinnabons with Miracle Whip - not even in jest :o)
ReplyDeleteand when you organize the events, I'm in on the palm branch fencing
Those are amazing responses. I agree, this is one of the most hurtful things someone can say, and is hardly ever appropriate.
ReplyDeleteAnd some people are just gluttons for attention, so no matter what you feed them, they'll still be hungry!
Awesome post! A couple of my close friends have the attitude that our church is where they serve, but they need to branch out to get fed. They recently asked me if I wanted to go and visit other churches in the city, and they regularly visit other services in the morning, coming to the evening services at our church.
ReplyDeleteI understand that not every person worships in the same environment, and there are some areas I see in my church that I don't agree with at all, but surely the church is the people. This gives the impression that they see the general church congregation as not spiritually mature enough for them, and that they only attend in order to serve.
I think "service" in this form cannot be a good thing, as it comes across as very patronising/condescending, and I think I even heard them say something along the lines of it being their "project". Bear in mind that this church has been around for hundreds of years, and the average age is probably around 40, while these guys are 20!
I do share some of their opinions about what true worship is, and see some fairly large issues when compared to the church I attend while at uni, but surely if we see an area where the church is failing, we should attempt to question this, not run away to find somewhere else.
Perhaps I'm being a little harsh, but I do strongly believe that the church is a family, and should be taken with all its flaws and failures, as well its strengths, and if you're in a serving position (one of them leads worship) then you should remain loyal to that church.
This was a really good post. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteGreat post. But I had to actually look at my calendar to see what day it is. If you're gonna do a Serious Wednesday post on Tuesday, it needs some kind of disclaimer for the ADD among us.
ReplyDeleteI love how you used this topic as a teaching opportunity. It'd be a lot easier to just write something funny and scathing about "those people" who complain. Your post encouraged self-reflection. So thanks!
And loved this:
"If the little Pharisee on your shoulder ever chimes in, “Great point. Thanks for letting everyone know how we feel,” about something you’ve said, you’ve got a problem."
waste deep v. waist deep
ReplyDeletePlay on words or outright goof...either way, nicely played.
WV:rokiptib-Greek for I'm not being fed.
Look it up in the Strong's, this is just what the Pharisees said: I'm rokiptib.
2 things, Jon:
ReplyDelete1. I thought at first you were talking about real food (b/c we really really DO love to eat when we get together ... almost seems wrong not to)
2. How about a post on how Christians love to blame the Pharisees for everything? After all, they weren't ALL bad.
It's true that when someone first becomes a believer they need to be fed, but for those who have been attending for awhile need to quit being babies and learn to feed themselves in a sense.
ReplyDeleteAsk not what your church can do for you, ask what you can do for your church. (I just totally made that up, though it may have been inspired by something else) ;)
You know, I've been feeling this way in my church for a while. And this was a great post for me. Each time it pops into my head, I try to rationalize it. I don't think I've ever voiced it because I don't like how it sounds either. Thanks for this post.
ReplyDeleteMy comment is like Dan's. God has prepared a banquet table before us! We having ALL we need in Jesus Christ and HE is enough! Now and then I have to remind myself - Do everything without grumbling or complaining! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteBrilliant John!
ReplyDeleteThere's also the "anticipatory reverse-grumble." When you want to try something radically new, like people dancing around a maypole in a worship service, tell the congregation in advance that objecting to it is something the Pharisees would have done.
ReplyDeleteI've heard this discussion before. Oddly enough, I've seen another phenomenon: church leaders looking down on people and refusing to meet their spiritual needs just because they say they're not being fed. A girl talked about leaving my church for another church and used the "not being fed" argument. The church leadership basically told her good riddance because she OBVIOUSLY wasn't helping others (since she played the feeding card).
ReplyDeleteOf course people use this as an excuse, and your three points are valid for those people. However, I have personally met all three of those challenges and still felt unsustained in a church. Sometimes you can honestly claim you're going deeper than those around you. I see it often in our youth group, as well. Some mature faster than others, but the youth minister has to gear his lessons toward the less mature teens.
I was going to comment about something sarcastic and funny related to complaining but I forgot what it was when you mentioned "I"m not being fed." Now all I can think about is shoving half the congregation into a giant vat of miracle whip slathered cinabons. Thanks a lot.
ReplyDeleteNo seriously thanks a lot I'm enjoying the mental parade of mayhem.
Every time someone gives me that I end up imagining what it would be like to have a severely handicapped child that I am still spoon feeding in their 40s (since most of the ones giving me that line are in their 40th+ year of being a Christian). I'm ok with spoon feeding my Youth, who are almost all new Christians to not Christians so it makes sense. You give bottles and baby food to infants. I have 4 kids so I'm pretty well familiar with this, but I'm also familiar with a point in life where a baby will reach over and grab a steak off your plate and start noming on it with their one tooth.
I think Christians are suppose to reach that point pretty quickly. Hey I may be new and I may only be equipped with one simple study tool but I'm going after the steak because it looks good.
Making church more about you than about God is never a good spot to be in. But it's still a hard spot to stay away from! This post was really encouraging, Jon. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteAnd Matt-
Excellent comment. This is so very true: "And some people are just gluttons for attention, so no matter what you feed them, they'll still be hungry!"
But what do you do with someone like that? Anyone have any ideas?
There is SO much truth in this article it's staggering (and no, I'm not merely referring to the Miracle Whip and Cinnabon statement... although that is rather true). "I'm not being fed right now" is not only a self-centered complaint but an indicator of just how self-seeking and sinful we really are. At the heart of such a phrase is a desire to turn the Gospel itself into something that's about us and not bringing Glory to God. I'm so glad somebody is pointing that out (not to mention in such a refreshing way).
ReplyDeleteAnother thing I noticed about that statement that I wanted to throw out for people to think about is this: "I'm not being fed right now" implies that we don't really understand what or rather who it is that should be feeding us. I think 9 times out of 10 it is used to justify leaving a church because the music isn't hip enough or the pastor doesn't grab your attention, even when the Gospel is being preached. I posit that throwing around that statement and others like it are evidence that we are leaving the feeding up to the church institute, music, preaching, etc. rather than recognizing that feeding comes from God through His abundant grace.
Thanks again for the great article John!
I've heard this one quite a bit. And in my experience, the people who say this come across condescending and snobby. As if the simplicity of the gospel wasn't enough for them. They seem to look down on churches who preach the simple truths of the gospel and don't explore the great mysteries of the cosmos. I think they forget that the church is here for a world who does not know Christ not to feed the intellectual minds of the deep thinking Christian. Sorry...this line really gets under my skin. If someone wants to explore the deep mysteries of the Bible than they can study that in their own time with God because that may be how God speaks to them and that's cool. But I wish they wouldn't look down on a church (my church) because they are teaching the simple gospel that Jesus came to heal the broken and the battered through the cross and applying the Bible to people'e everyday lives. OK, I'm off my soap box now :)
ReplyDeleteWhen people say, “I’m not being fed,” what they’re really saying is, “This church is too surface for me. These sermons are too simple. I want to dig into the meat of the Scriptures. I want to explore the deeper mysteries of God. . . .”
ReplyDeleteWhich can be true, but what I think they're really saying is that they aren't being CATERED to. It may come across as wanting to dig deeper and explore further; but it's been my experience that these are the same people who don't volunteer to serve in roles from altar guild to coffee hour. These are the people who don't attend the mid-week services. These are the people who don't come back to church for Sunday evening adult ed.
So it's not that they're not being fed, but rather that they aren't being catered to or taking advantage of the buffet that is being offered.
HOWEVER, Bryan makes a good point. As a church leader, when a parishioner says, "I'm not being fed," we (I) need to remember that it's a two-way street. What could I be doing differently? What can we offer that we aren't? How can I help grow this person?
If we lay all the blame on the person doing the complaining, then we set ourselves up to seeing our church with rose-colored blinders.
I haven't commented in forever, because I'm not as funny as a lot of the readers, and because sometimes I tend to take everything so seriously that all the sarcasm bogs me down. But I wanted to let you know that I love this post.
ReplyDeleteI also wanted to share, from my own experience (and hope that it will help some "not getting fed" folks who are willing to honestly examine their hearts).
There was a time in my life a few years ago that I felt that I wasn't "being fed" at our church, but I came to realize that I was showing up Sunday to Sunday, waiting to be spoon-fed everything. I wasn't taking the time to dig into Scripture for myself throughout the week. And I grew to discover that the sermons that I thought were just all over the place were actually so deep and meaty that when I was living my spiritual walk from Sunday to Sunday, they just went right over my head. (Sort of like when as a brand new Christian, I read through half of "My Utmost for His Highest" and thought, 'Man, this is for babies - I need something more challenging!' That makes me laugh now.)
Anyway, great post. Great challenges for us.
Great post Jon. I am from Ohio, and we only complain about the winter weather and the Cleveland sports teams. And I also had to check my calendar, Tuesday or Wednesday?
ReplyDeleteAnyways, question #2 can be very powerful. And it reminds me of your post a while ago (and maybe it was on 97secondswithGod) about the paralytic being lowered down through the hole in the roof by his four friends (Mark 2). Here were your questions to us: "who is carrying your mat, and perhaps more importantly, whose mat are you carrying?"
True greatness is shown in self-less humility by feeding someone else or by carrying their mat.
Thanks for the Christ-reminders today.
I have a feeling that if I went to church looking to be "fed" every week, I would come away hungry. Every week.
ReplyDeleteThanks for addressing the consumer mentality that seems to be thriving in our society today--even in our churches.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Who out there just pointed at someone else and started to complain about them. HAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteSo I'm forwarding this to our church staff! Thanks for your on-target, funny (else we'd cry!) posts about church life!
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I just can't finish reading this post right now. I'm still stuck on the part where you say Cinnabons are not good. I just can't wrap my head around that one. I love Cinnabons...
ReplyDeleteVBS Scissor Skills -- love that :) And hey, you had your own surprising moves today -- started with some lighthearted stuff and then whipped out some serious truth. And? You nailed it.
ReplyDeleteDoes complaining about the complainers count? That would be my favorite event in the Olympics.
ReplyDeleteSeems to me that anyone who feels they aren't being fed should be feeding themselves.
ReplyDeleteAlso seems to me that the "deeper mysteries of God" are usually wrapped in the simplest, most basic tenets of our faith. Love God and love your neighbor may sound "simple" but it is incredibly complex in practice.
I don't think there are any deeper mysteries that we need to worry about - at least not until we get a hold of the "simple" things and live them.
Personally, any time I start feeling like "i'm not being fed" i remind myself that:
a) I'm not the only person in the church
b) I haven't read the book of James lately.
When it comes to Christianity the KISS formula works...not "I Wanna Rock and Roll all night" but "keep it simple, stupid".
And yes I am looking at my reflection as I type this.
@Dan Lewis - I share your sentiment! Babies get fed; adults feed themselves (and babies). We all start as spiritual babies, but we should always press forward to mature and share in Christ equally.
ReplyDeleteThanks!
I complain about not being fed at church, but it's in reference to real food and it's on the days when there's not a fellowship meal after the service...
ReplyDeleteI think a woman from my church would win the complain-off in the Olympics in a landslide. She'd be the Michael Phelps of complaining.
...until I show up and provide an underdog win with all my complaining about her...
Amen! Jon and I love Reverend Ref+ comment as well. Having said that, may I just say I hate Miracle Whip. I mean it, I really do. I am a Hellman's girl, (and I shudder to say that) Is that some sort of devilish remark? Like devilled eggs? or Helluva Good onion dip? Is it all about food??? Am I being fed the wrong stuff??? Holy canoli I'm getting hungry ;-)
ReplyDeletewv-knovel what I knead to stop reading so I can get fed.
The "not being fed" complaint also misses the primary reason we go to church - to worship the Lord.
ReplyDeleteI think sometimes we forget that we're still just people - and imperfect. It's easy to pick on the complainers or some Pharisee. We probably should remember that someone is probably complaining about us too.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the person not being fed in church has probably not eaten through the week in time set aside for Christ. Someone that malnourished probably couldn't eat anything more substantial, even if it were being served.
Miracle Whip kicks mayonnaise's butt. How can Christians not like it? It has the word "miracle" in it.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree with this post more! It drives me crazy when I hear the 'not being fed' statement. I always want to ask "What are you doing to feed yourself?" Why does the pastor have to be the one responsible to spoon feed us God's word? How about reading books, getting teaching CD's or teaching podcasts, go to a Bible study...the list goes on.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to disagree with the premise and some of the comments here.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, if a pastor heard that complaint, I'd think his first response would/should be to take it to the Lord and examine what he is feeding his people. Why do people sign so many ulterior motives to people feeling this way?
When I have felt unfed spiritually, it's when a pastor is preaching his opinions or "ranting" about something rather than preaching the Word. Yes I do serve and yes I do "feed" myself in the Word almost every day. And yes we do go to church to workshop the Lord. But does that mean it's ok for the spiritual food we partake from the pulpit to be Twinkies rather than milk and meat?
Also, the Cinnabons in Canada are heavenly...it makes me sad they are sub-par for you down in the US of A.
ReplyDeleteMiracle Whip is like mayonnaise’s underachieving cousin--
ReplyDeletePerfectly put.
A little humor and ingratiating yourself to us just before you smack the back of the head with an iron skillet.
Well done.
Great post. You should consider adding an animal cracker-eating contest, a how many people can you shake hands with during the meet-and-greet event, and maybe an offering joke showdown to your Olympic events. A "who's the trendiest youth pastor" or "which music pastor has the best facial hair" wouldn't be a bad idea either.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty funny that half of the people who commented on this agreed with you and then proceeded to complain about complainers instead of admitting that they've used that one before. Classic.
ReplyDeleteAll I have to say to this article is WORD! There is so much truth in this! It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, and it's another thing to just sit and complain.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if there is a Stuff Christians Life Olympics, there needs to be a hand raising event. I would be a strong contender for the gold. :)
Oh, and mayo is so much better than Miracle Whip!
I kind of get off on that complaint...it more than anything lets me know their heart....a glimpse into it and what they are about...probly not right of me but that's what I do.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIs there not such a thing as Godly discontentment with a local church? And is not "not being fed" part (NOT all) of that kind of discontentment?
ReplyDeleteWhen I moved to MO, I checked out a LOT of churches & never found a great fit but knew I needed to commit to one- so I prayed and picked one and committed 8mo to attending services and groups regularly, volunteering, actively seeking out Godly relationships... and never developed a sense of connectedness and felt stagnant in my faith.
Disappointed, and with a complaint pretty similar to today's topic, I started attending another church and knew it was where God wanted me almost immediately. In that much smaller church I found discipleship relationships and young families that I am delighting in serving. And yes, I feel more fed and am okay to say that I like that. ;-)
That's my experience, at least. Perhaps I would think differently if I was a covenant member of the first church, or perhaps I just really need prayer for my (sinful!?) desire to, yes, be challenged and loved through my relationship with Christ's Church! :-)
Oh, and
Miracle Whip = Awesome
Mayonnaise = Acceptable only in certain social situations.
There was a study a few years back followed by a book based on what they found when they surveyed the spiritual lives of members of evangelical churches, and it led to some great points. Basically it said where you get"fed" most will shift as you mature, from sermons to small groups to 1:1 discipleship to service to quiet times. So that really encouraged me to take a look at my spiritual life phase when the sermons per se weren't doing much for me, and realize that's not a bad thing if I grow more / experience God more through serving or small group these days. But I think Paul also says something to the effect of ..."without neglecting the former things..." We should still go for a well-balanced "diet"!
ReplyDeleteDebbie, that's really cool - I like the idea of progressing, as well as being balanced :)
ReplyDeleteTruth is, I'm a huge complainer. Even though I'm involved in the "delivery" of the "food". Some of it, anyways.
Winter = tired. I'm tired of church.
Maybe I have a shot at this olympic event after all...
@Lindsay:
ReplyDeleteI think there's definitely such a thing as being healthily discontent with a particular church. In my opinion, that's what denominations are best for--not to divide and cause rifts in the church, but because God made us different and gave us personalities that mean we connect and engage in different ways. I think God meets us in our preferences between the differences in size, worship styles, casual vs. formal, contemporary vs. traditional, liturgical vs. free-form, and so on.
My fiance and I have been involved in two churches for the past few years (since we were each involved in ministry at a church before we started dating, and rather than immediately committing to one church, we chose to each take on a ministry role at the other's church, and we've been serving together in two churches simultaneously). This year, however, we knew it was time for us to commit fully to one church as a couple, so that we'd stop spreading ourselves so thin.
Our decision was partly based on the church's size--we're going to the larger church, about 10 times the size of the smaller--because there are more opportunities for ministry there. It's partly based on employment--he's been working as the choir director at the smaller church, and in January, I'll start working as the theatre ministry coordinator at the larger church.
It's also partly based on the growth we experience at the larger church. We've definitely experienced good spiritual food at both churches, but were getting increasingly more fulfillment out of the larger one. So for us, it's a combination of all those factors. Finding a church is tough sometimes, even when you're re-finding the church you've attended all your life (which is the case here--the church we've chosen is my home church, where I grew up).
Also, mayonnaise? Best fry dip ever. Way better than ketchup.
First off, I agree. Before we say that "we're not being fed", we need to do a little personal inventory. However, Pastors have a responsibility to "feed the sheep" and IF more of them were doing that today instead of focusing on the fluff..."How to Have a Better Sex Life or "How to Improve your____ (fill in the blank)", we might actually see churches filled with spiritually maturing Christians instead of entertained seekers.
ReplyDelete~ktf~
John
So I've never commented on any of your posts before, but I've been secretly following your blog for a while now. I really like it &I even told my friends about it. They don't like it as much as I do. I have the better sense of humor I guess.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, just felt compelled to say that I really liked this post. It was simple, but apparently many people know what you're talking about.
So TRUE. If I had a nickel for every time I heard the "I'm not being fed" line, I'd have at least enough money to buy the Stuff Christians Like book.
ReplyDeleteUsually when I say to myself, "I'm not being fed" its when I haven't been feeding myself. Not when someone else hasn't been feeding me, In so many ways, a sermons not going to mean anything to me in the future(or present) unless I've been feeding myself before hand. Everything else is the milk that washes that Tender stake down. If you know what I mean
ReplyDelete"If the answer is no, then you’re not really into feeding. You’re into devouring. Devouring things for yourself, and that’s completely different than feeding."
ReplyDeleteI could not have said that better myself. This complaint is something I have heard for years now, but it has always boggled me.
my complaint is that I am not allowed to feed others in the way I feel I am called to feed them.
ReplyDeleteSatan loves it when people grumble about church. I always feel like a lot of those complaints come from people who aren't finding their church to be exciting enough. I know that's where most of my complaining comes from.
ReplyDeleteI recently made a video about this and entered it in a contest. Check it out.
http://www.ekklesiadetroit.com/contest/?p=71
This post brings to mind a story I heard on the news. The single mother of an 18 month old child died in her sleep. A couple of days went by before anyone came to the house. When help arrived, they found that the baby had survived on ketchup and uncooked noodles...the only things she could get her hands on.
ReplyDeleteCase in point...even the youngest of babes will find a way to feed themselves when no one is there to do the feeding.
If there was a "like" button on this post, I'd click it. (Actually, I'd probably "like" every post on your blog!)
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I think miracle whip is DISGUSTING. I'd be very motivated to win the complain off knowing that the loser would fall into that...ewww.
fist bump to Stacy and Lindsay....
ReplyDeleteMiracle whip is NOT an underachieving cousin to mayo it is in fact the older overachieving sibling golden child
other than that... awesome post
I would so agree about the grumbling of Christians ... and I would also agree that the line of "I'm not being fed" which you picked to pick on can certainly be used in a very immature fashion.
ReplyDeleteBut, sadly, I think it played a bit into a reality that exists today ... one that needs to be addressed so carefully.
Is it possible to go to church and spend seven years never growing deeper as a result of church attendance, but only in your own personal spiritual life? Would that be a result of a pastor not feeding his sheep? Is it possible that someone in that position could be cheerfully and lovingly serving in their own neighborhood and job and church on a regular basis, encouraging ... and yet carefully also noticing warning signs that not all the sheep are being fed? Is it possible that sermons can do what Scripture does ... weave the beautiful simplicity of the gospel with the gorgeous complexity of it at the same time?
Is it possible to leave that same church, the first "leaving" in your adult life, in such a way that you are complimented by the leadership in the way in which you left? By not gossiping, or bringing the church down, by merely being lovingly honest and only prayerfully sharing concerns with the correct people? Is that possible? Is it possible to also discover later that you were part of a large group of people that also left the same church without gossiping, without leaving as a group or causing a church split or causing other rifts?
Is it possible? It did. It happened here. The church itself still does well, is prayed for diligently by those who left without feeling the need to consult all their friends, but knowing that God had guided them in their actions, knowing there is no perfect church, knowing they would stay if God had asked them to (they all preferred to stay, including us).
Is it possible that a pastor and pastoral staff could carefully examine what is happening when a large portion of their deepest in maturity believers/leadership so carefully and in such a concerned fashion approached them all separately for the exact same reasons, but without consulting each other ... ? Sadly ... not yet as we know. But we also know that while they still preach the oh-so-vital and simple truth of Christ dying to save sins ... they save the oh-so-vital growth in maturity for ... well ... for ... well ... they have yet to have preached it that I know of.
Friends of ours visited another church which was not preaching anything new or weird or odd or out there ... just basic biblical truths ... and realized that in fourteen years, they hadn't heard any of it in our former church which continually cycled through the same things, never challenging the sheep to move ahead in their growth ... setting the bar very low.
These things really do exist and I sadly feel that it's possible your post gives credence to what sometimes amounts to mockery made of those who are trying so hard to help the church stay in line with maturity (maturity never leaves behind the gospel, btw) and yet are told they are selfish to admit that they are still themselves sheep who need a shepherd, even while they shepherd others.
Is it possible to not be fed by your earthly shepherd and have concerns for not yourself, but for the other sheep around you? To not want your children to grow up in a Christian environment where people stagnate and live down to the expectations given them, to not have a leadership that respects the word of God enough to actually preach the whole of it?
And these are our dear friends with whom we maintain contact and deep friendship. They know our concerns at this point, and we know that they love the Lord and serve Him. But the struggles they face, the danger of error into which a church falls because of the people not knowing the full word of God ...
... oh I could go on and on and on and on ... and it's not even Wednesday yet.
michele
Anonymous 9:55? that was intense. It really was,
ReplyDeleteI was in a sunday school class like that(which I HAD to go to. I'm the PK) it was our only sunday school class, and it was horrible.
The poor guy, he was teaching out of a book that tought about john (which was good). the problem was that every story had to do with one of maybe twenty stories, ten of which I had ever heard.
I would play games with myself. (ex: hmm....i think he's going to use THIS story today) it was horrible. :(
anyway, I never learned anything new. it was horrible.
oh, and by the way, want to know what is better than someone who complains about the people that complain?
the people that were just complaining in this blog about the people that were complaining about those who complain. Best thing in the world. :)
Gotta put my hand up and admit my guilt to as least thinking this one before!
ReplyDeleteGod is directing me though, to become a blessing to my church and to use my skills to help as opposed to complaining.
Great Post!! Food for thought...
ReplyDelete~Beth
where in the Bible does it say we're supposed to be fed at church? New Christians are "fed" but mature Christians should be feeding themselves! It's all part of growing up in Christ. I personally have found that people who are saying they're not being fed are either offended with leadership or are not getting into the Word of God for themselves, often both. It's an attitude of the heart - regardless of how simple the sermon, a heart that's open and teachable will find something. So mny Christians are just gluttons - wanting to be spoon fed everything but never learning to feed themselves. It's sad. We're here for others, not for ourselves.
ReplyDelete@Lindsey and Anonymous @9:55: I totally understand what you are saying. And I agree. My little soap box speech was strictly based on my own personal experience with people telling me that line. It was in no way painting everyone who leaves a church for some reason or another in that way. I agree that God has given us each ways that we hear Him best and we should find a church that fits that. Sorry if my speech came across as lumping everyone together. It was more a personal frustration with some of my friends that have used that line and looked down on me because I go to a certain church :)
ReplyDeleteCarrie, I can totally understand that. I think it would be really rude to look down on someone who attends "that" church that another left ... thinking they are so far ahead of all the other poor souls left behind. :( That's so wrong. I'm sorry you've experienced that.
ReplyDeleteSomeone else asked why Christians are to be fed at church. It comes out of the various mentions of the church in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, where the people would gather together to worship as a group. Everything we do is an act of worship, but God placed great importance upon worshiping as a group on the Sabbath and then the early church changed to Sunday for a couple reasons we know of. The readings of what they would do in those gatherings are what we base our gathering times upon today ... singing, reading the word, preaching, .... The New Testament explains that nonbelievers will be present in the gathering of the church (and will be blessed by it) but the gathering of the church is for the enouragement and edification of believers who need it so desperately as they go out into the world day by day, spreading Jesus wherever they are. I think we forget how dependent the Bible makes us upon each other.
michele
In relation to #1, the essential statement I usually hear is, "I just don't get anything out of it." Whether it's a bible study or sermon they will always complain.
ReplyDeleteI know people may have to church hop sometimes to find a good church home, but if we always say we don't get anything out of church, it shows our immaturity.
I don't intend to get all defensive here, but if you point the finger at the individual person, you can miss the fact that the church is indeed not feeding people.
ReplyDeleteI went to a church a couple times near my campus. I stopped going to the Sunday mornings when the pastor said, "I think we give God ideas, sometimes," and I stopped going to the Wednesday nights (to which I only originally went because of the free food) when the pastor (who had been divorced) said, "I know Jesus said this about divorce, but...." I don't remember what the "but" was, but I don't think there should be a "but" in that situation.
Although, for that situation, grumbling shouldn't happen. Leaving the church should.
I can see how you would get upset if someone said this about your church, because it can be said in a way that makes the person sound super spiritual. However, if we assume that everyone who makes that statement is wrong, that means that EVERY single church out there is preaching the true gospel in a way that should reach everyone. Many of us have church-shopped, do you really want to make that claim?
ReplyDeleteIt was always my policy, when church pastoring, to listen thoroughly to the "I'm not being fed" folks and do all in my power to meet their needs. But for the ones who slept or Blackberry'd their way through all the sermons, blew off Sunday School and midweek Bible Study, left their home prayer/study materials in a heap on the pew each week, and refused to show up for evening prayer and song, week after week after week ...well, there just wasn't too much I could do for 'em. (But it was still my fault they weren't being fed, of course.)
ReplyDeleteIt's a two-way street. Pastor's gotta feed, but parishioner's gotta chew and swallow.
wv: hisst - what the chief complainer and her accomplice did all through the service: "I wasn't fed today because the McRotten Sisters hisst right behind me the whole time."
I Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
ReplyDelete3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.