I admit, touch is not one of my "love languages." Few things wake me up as fast as having my wife's elbows and knees jabbing me in the middle of the night. Or what other people would call "snuggling."
I therefore always thought I was the only one that didn't like the "during church massage." But yesterday, when I briefly mentioned a lady I've seen at church that rubs her husband's neck during service, a number of people commented. Suddenly, I was awash with an ocean of hope. Although I have mentioned this issue before, this time I was filled with the sense that I am not alone. I am not that weird. Perhaps, I thought to myself, I can join an underground resistance dedicated to the elimination of the "during church massage."
And the more I thought about that idea, the more I realized that every underground cause needs a manifesto. Some brief document that lays out our thoughts about the terror we so valiantly struggle against. I googled the name of the organization I wanted to join and didn't get any good results. So I knew it had to be me. I had to make the first move in this battle. And thus this post was born:
The People Against Massages In Church (PAMIC) Manifesto
1. The difference between a pat and a massage.
We recognize and respect the need to pat someone on the back. Sometimes, it's good to say "Hi" or "Good job" or "Your chair is currently resting on my big toe" with a small tap on the back. We support that. But when you pat more than four times and then linger, you have now crossed into massage territory my friend. And you're about to find yourself on the other end of a "PAMIC Attack."
2. Circles are great for cheerios, not church.
We recognize and respect the need to lay a hand on someone as you say hello or want to show your spouse support during a prayer. But when you start rubbing in a circle, a square or any other geometrical shape, you are now giving a massage. That's not a big deal right? Wrong. Your rotating hand is creating what we call a "circle of distraction." People around you will not be able to focus on the sermon as they instead become hypnotized by watching you. God hates that. It's in Numbers or Exodus I think.
3. There are consequences if you try to massage us.
The members of PAMIC are attractive and funny and Godly and often smell very nice. Please don't get confused by those four things and think it's OK to ever give us a back or neck rub during church. If you do, we can't be held responsible if you suddenly find yourself in some sort of karate arm bar lock, a sleeper hold or at the bottom of a wicked leg drop.
4. Don't confuse not loving in church massages with not loving life, Jesus, our spouses etc.
You will assume, based on our plans to rid all churches, in all countries of "during church massages," that we are not loving people. That perhaps you are rubbing someone's neck as an act of worship or praise or affection. And that members of PAMIC are not into any of those things. That is adorable. It's possible we held hands with our spouses as we walked into church. We might give back rubs at home. We could be amazing "snugglers" but when it comes to touching folks at church, we follow the Bible. And there's not a single example of someone in the Bible giving someone else a neck or back rub while Jesus taught. I dare you to find me a verse that shows that during the Sermon on the Mount for instance.
Is this extreme? Perhaps, but few great revolutions started quietly. We will not go peacefully. We will march and protest and launch thousands of PAMIC Attacks. (A PAMIC Attack by the way is when you squirt someone that is trying to start a during church massage with a squirt gun full of vinegar. Or what we call at our house, "sass juice.")
Non massagers of the world unite!
Oh come on! I'm a neck rubber only because my husband works til 2 am Sunday morning. It's either a nice neck stroke to wake him up or a poke in the ribs with my forefinger. I'd rather coax him back from dreamland gently.
ReplyDeleteCould we get special squirt guns for the PAMIC attacks that read "Holy Spirit Room" on them? I teach at a Christian school, and at our dances we always joke with the kids about leaving room for the Holy Spirit (a fun way to let them know we want to see some side hug dancing). We could be telling the massagers the same thing!
ReplyDeleteA couple of Sundays ago I felt physically ill when a couple in front of me was doing this. I actually had to get up and find another seat. I may lean on the extreme side. But now I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.
ReplyDeleteNo lie I was at church today for a Kid's event and saw a man doing the head massage to his wife. It almost made me think he was rubbing her head like a dog. So then to read this blog is cracking me up. Ten minutes of it was enough. Really!
ReplyDeleteOn the level of nauseating just below the "in church neck massages" are couples who give neck massages to each other in the car while friends sit quietly and awkwardly in the back seat. I mean, come on! We're less than two feet away from you! I feel sick just thinking about it...
ReplyDeleteI completely respect your right to manifest and rant over church PDA. Afterall, it is your blog and your pet-peeve. In fact, the next time my husband touches me in church, I'll be sure to nudge him away. And I will be a better person for it. More civilized-like.
ReplyDeleteBut I only wish that if you were going to take time to write a manifesto and start a movement, that you would have addressed a much more important topic, one that affects thousands of church-goers every Sunday and that is perpetuated by the very leaders of our churches. Leaders who seem to take delight in the embarrassing, "look at your neighbor and repeat after me" directive.
It goes something like this: Happy Church-Goer Mary sits in her pew listening intently to a moving sermon. She takes notes, nods her head, and looks up scripture references while happily minding her own business. Happy, happy Church-Goer Mary.
Only suddenly, anointed Reverend Preacher Man instructs Happy Church-Goer Mary and the rest of the unsuspecting congregation to "turn to the person next to you and say: 'God uses cracked pots and I am one cracked pot.'" (Or whatever phrase drives home his point.) And, predictably, this never happens when Church-Goer Mary is sitting safely next to her spouse and can fake it. No, it happens when her spouse is off working in children's church and she is stuck telling a perfect stranger about her cracks.
Like church PDA, I'm quite certain the old look-at-your-neighbor-and-utter-something-ridiculous tactic did not begin in the Sermon on the Mount. But unlike church PDA, forced repetition is inflicted on the entire congregation.
They must teach this stuff in seminary. Otherwise why would an intelligent, well-educated pastor believe that people really want to turn to strangers and repeat part of the sermon? Cause I'm pretty sure the congregation is smart enough to get the pastor’s previous eight points that all began with "B."
Another manifesto?
I can't stand to get the rub down in church. Makes me feel like hubby is telling me to wake up. I'm not asleep, I just don't want a neck rub. Wait till we're home and I can get a backrub that COUNTS.
ReplyDeletewe have a couple at our church perfect for "worst offender" status on this one. Her massage of her husband literally lasts the ENTIRE sermon. *heebiejeebiesjiggle*
ReplyDeleteYour post makes me oh so happy. I'm sorry but church is not the right place for this behavior.
I can't agree more. There are few things I find more repulsive than church PDA.
ReplyDeleteAmen - this should be an emergency across all prayer chains and forwards.
ReplyDeleteI am soo with you on this! I declare myself a member of PAMIC.
ReplyDeletewho does NOT get distracted by that wandering hand on the loved one's back. seriously people! it's church service not a Aaron Neville concert!
You are 100% right that church is not the place for this.
ReplyDelete[Except when I was a teenager there was this cute couple that led our youth group, and my family always sat behind them in church----I would always see him rubbing her back or neck in church and I would think to myself: "They were probably having SEX last night!" and get a delicious thrill from thinking such ---and especially, thinking this IN CHURCH.]
I feel so understood right now...
ReplyDeleteThank you. Just, thank you.
Well, you're right - no massages in the sermon on the mount. But since you were willing to tackle this one, how about tackling the whole foot washing ceremony thing, which IS in the good book. Because I'm sure I'm not alone on wanting my feet kept to myself and not wanting to touch anyone else's feet. I'd rather give a neck rub to a stranger any day.
ReplyDeleteRebecca, darling, surely you're creative enough to think of gentle ways of waking your husband that DON'T needlessly distract everyone behind you and force them to think about your and your husband's intimacy, which while fascinating and lovely to you, is not necessarily what everyone behind you wants to be forced to think about, at that moment or probably ever.
ReplyDeleteMail me my charter membership card please Jon.
I heartily agree with demian farnworth. I nevereverevereverEVER repeat what a pastor says, just because he tells me too. Kind of makes for some awkward situations when I just stare straight ahead as the stranger next to me repeats whatever the good reverend just said.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy I no longer go to a church like that...
As for your rant - I agree up to a point. Massages, OUT. Cuddling OUT. An arm around the shoulders in a sit-down side-hug, minus caresses, OK.
I have to admit, I have been a PDA-er in the past. Not heavily, and there were no massages. But...No longer!
Mainly because there are a few women I dearly love in my church whose husbands left them for another, and I have found out that it's HARD for them to see that kind of affection and not be envious/sad/angry/etc... even though they know that no one is hurting them on purpose. One of these ladies lost her husband over 20 years ago, and it still stings her sometimes. So, I'm more considerate now.
Yeah, the pharisees weren't too down with the whole PDA thing either...
ReplyDeleteLuke 7:38
"...and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
7:44
Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
I'm just sayin'...
(hee hee hee)
(And maybe if sermons weren't so boring, people wouldn't resort to massage... Course, since it's usually either me or my hubby preaching, I can't really point any fingers...but I've rarely seen the massage going on during really interactive, interesting, relevant messages.)
I don't know even know why I'm defending this (all in good fun of course), but one additional thought...I actually had a teen that was in the youth group when my husband and I led it tell me (after she was an adult) that as a teenager she always admired couples who touched in some way during church; it made her feel secure that there were loving marriages in our congregation. (Admittedly, we did go through a time where there was a seeming outbreak of divorces, so it might have been prompted by that...) It surprised me, but I swear that story is true, and I thought it was kind of cool.
I know, it doesn't really fly well with PAMIC members...sorry.
I have a confession to make-- My wife does this to my neck from time to time, and it is terribly uncomfortable. I would like to sign up, and please send me the official squirt gun. Won't SHE be surprised next time! Sorry to anyone that has ever sat behind us!
ReplyDeleteWord. There's a couple that usually sits in front of us that like to engage in what we call "arm sex" during worship. It's not a nice little, circular massage, but their arms are all over each others backs, with the occassional bear hug from the side. It's so distracting. I'll be going to chruch tomorrow armed with my squirt gun of vinegar.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much. Touch is definitely my love language, but I don't want to be rubbed, or massaged, or whatever in church. It just feels wrong. Now here's a story for you:
ReplyDeleteI'm pregnant. A couple months ago I ended up in the ER with some pain (it was nothing serious, just some serious pain that wouldn't go away). I told the whole story to a friend on Sunday morning. She ended up sitting behind me during the service. In the middle of worship, I had to sit down (again I'm pregnant!!). She come behind me and start to massaging my shoulders. That was totally weird and creepy. My husband was on stage playing the saxophone and comes to me later and asks "why was Beth rubbing your shoulders?"
Terrible and awkward!
I agree and would also like to become a long standing member of PAMIC. As a single woman who has wanted to be married - it really takes my mind off of the reason I'm there in a church service and just irritates me.
ReplyDeleteHowever................
If it's a choice between someone massaging their neighbor or the girlfriend/wife laying her head down on the boyfriend/husband shoulder like she's settling in for a nice long hap during the latest opera performance - I'll take a massage. I want to literally slap the ADULTS who do this in church!! COME ON!! It's not nap time at the pulpit!!!! Get a life! We don't all need to know that he belongs to you!!!! Can you give the guy space please??? This has bugged me since before I could date though.
You know, this does make some sense now that I read everybody's comments. Honestly, though, I do think it's nice to see couples showing (reasonable) affection in church. Like the girl in the other comment, I find it reassuring. It never would have occurred to me to equate it to some kind of public and inappropriate couple "intimacy."
ReplyDeleteIt's funny because my love language is 'phyiscal touch' and yet it bugs the daylights out of me when couples at church feel the need to just be in each other's spaces during sermons with the neck rubbing, and the leaning on each other. I've even seen young couples (i.e: college age) kiss during sermons. Ick! I am not claustrophobic in any way either, but one Sunday morning, a guy was holding onto his girlfriend so tightly that I felt uncomfortably claustrophobic and literally had to walk out of the sanctuary for a breathe of fresh air. That's insane.
ReplyDeleteI am guilty of this myself, but only because my wife desires this. Most times I just put my arm around her, though some times I squeeze her shoulder or gently give love pats.
ReplyDeleteYears ago we constantly sat near a couple that always snuggled in church. My wife would always be envious because we were not 'as loving' as them. As time wore on, I compromised with the methods mentioned above.
I witnessed the church massage on Sunday, too. It just seems weird to cuddle during worship service.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Demian. The only thing more annoying than PDA during service is the "Turn to your neighbor, give him a high five and say..." bit!
Shannon- we must go to the same church, because I have been grossed out by the arm-sex/groping couple many times! I've been thinking of asking them to take it to the parking lot.
ReplyDeleteJon - hilarious topic...I might try your remedy tomorrow morning. haha
Haha. Great post! But I'm a bit torn on this issue... as a teenager I do kinda find it reassuring to see a young married couple in a "sit down side hug" of sorts during a sermon. I think that's acceptable and cute... but any other physical contact is just gross. Especially old people... I really don't want/need to be thinking about that kind of stuff... ESPECIALLY in church. Lol thankfully I don't have any couples groping each other in front of me in church... :]
ReplyDeletei'm in! um, is the water pistol it, though? no de-coder ring or a badge? how can we police this properly without a badge?? and maybe something along the lines of a nightstick where we can pry the perpetrator off of the victim...
ReplyDeleteThe in-church back-massagers are like snuggly amusement park couples. They were distracting for me too, until I found a man worthy of the in-church back-scratch. Now I am an offender, and proud of it. Deal, people. Figure out who the worst culprits are, and don't sit behind them next sunday. Or better yet.. sit in the front row. Then you won't have to be distracted by anything. Watch out for pastorly spit, though. It can be pretty disgusting.
ReplyDeleteI guess that whole "greet each other with a holy kiss" thing would be out too.
ReplyDeleteWhen I started preaching at my present church, one of the women in the church mentioned that the former pastor used to give each of the women a kiss on the cheek. I politely told her, "If it's okay with you, I think my wife is the only woman I need to kiss."
But, why blame the overly affectionate for your distraction? That's like blaming a woman's attire for your lust problem. Leg drop me if you must. Bring on the PAMIC Attack or sic your worship eagles on me. But, I think there is something beautiful in putting aside hibbiejibbies to focus on truth from the pulpit.
okay, i totally thought this was going to be a manifesto against pastors who ask us to turn to our neighbors and give them back massages for a couple minutes. am i the only one who has experienced this in church? i've experienced it in several different churches in my life, so i'm pretty sure i'm not alone in this.
ReplyDeleteit's really weird to back-rub your neighbor . . . who is a complete stranger to you. i think it's even worse than turning to your neighbor and repeating something from the sermon. and worse than being asked to stand and greet the people around you by telling them what you did over the weekend. even though i'm not a fan of either of those things, either. awkward!
that said, i confess i'm guilty of rubbing my hub's back sometimes during church in the cheerio circle. i think, for me at least, it's because worshiping God with him is a huge reminder to me of God's faithfulness and goodness to us. this is a second marriage for both of us, and i can't worship with him without being reminded that God had mercy on both of us and then demonstrated his lavish love by bringing our lives together.
however, i have no desire to distract others. i'm totally going to chill on PDA from this point forward!
I regularly get my neck rubbed in church, and my shoulders. I have arthritis. Everyone can deal with it. :)
ReplyDeleteI don't think people realize how distracting this is. There is a couple at my church that always sits in the second row and he twirls her hair around his pointer finger through the entire sermon. Drives me crazy!
ReplyDeleteToo funny. Too true. There's a newly married couple, second marriages for both, who are so very guilty at my church. A couple weekends ago my husband and I and this couple were in charge of hospitality. She sat on his lap at times when we weren't making coffee, arranging cookies etc. I'm pretty sure that's not on the Sermon on the Mount too.
ReplyDeleteI thought all guys had touch as a love language!
ReplyDeleteI'm with crystal_k on this one: if it distracts you, sit somewhere else. That seems like an obvious solution to me.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, my husband and I are offenders. We don't do the massage thing, but back scratching, holding hands, him putting his arm around me, etc., are all usual Sunday activities for us. Every once in a while I lay my head on his shoulder. We're always really touchy together - why should we change that in church, where we feel closest to the One who brought us together? Like eastern ky pastor said above, blaming an affectionate couple for your distraction is like blaming your lust issue on someone's clothes. Just sit elsewhere.
My husband and I have also had people tell us it's reassuring to see such a loving, affectionate marriage. Obviously you can be loving without being touchy, but being touchy is a pretty blatant outward sign. It's just second nature to us, and we love that it encourages people that some marriages are just as fun and romantic as dating is.
I like this post. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but you're a good writer so I can appreciate it. However, I must say that my pastor has on occasion kissed his wife on stage & I think it's adorable!
ReplyDeleteYou all need to get a life! Such petty things to be thinking of--- if the pastor's sermon was at all provocative or stimulating no one would care about this silly manifesto.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 7:26
ReplyDeleteThis has to be one of my friends just teasing me. I have some pretty ironic friends and leaving an anonymous quote on a Saturday night in which you tell other people, to get a life, is too perfectly ironic to be real.
I don't know which one of you did it, but well done. The irony of being home on a Saturday night, posting an anonymous comment and telling other people to "get a life" is classic. Well played friend, well played indeed.
Jon
Oh give me a break!!! Get over it! I rub my husband's back during church...sometimes back and forth and yes sometimes in a circular motion! Ooooo so gross! It's not like you're having to watch people make out!
ReplyDeleteHere's whole new level of creepy...my wife and I go to a retreat every spring with leaders from our denomination. Every year we manage to sit behind an older couple that dresses in matching clothes - because nothing says "we're secure in our relationship" like matching flannel shirts!
ReplyDeleteAs if that's not enough, they whisper sweet things to each other, rub necks, KISS on the neck and when we take communion together...wait for it...THEY DO THE INTERLOCKING ARM DRINK!!! You know, the one where annoying couples drink champagne at fancy restaurants by interlocking arms and drinking?!
How can you NOT know that doing that is WEIRD?! STOP IT!!! I'm thinking Jesus himself is going incarnate himself again just to leg drop someone! Or I might just do it...
ooh, and the snarky smack-down prize goes to Jon!
ReplyDeleteWell-played, indeed.
Put your heartfelt concern with people, your problems lie with those people, concern yourself with God, your problems become solved. I dont know how serious this issue is with some people, but i always appreciate a nice massage, but other people aren't comfortable with it. I would suggest people take the high ground, tackle the problem by prayer and a leap of faith toward a solution. I believe this was informative, and I will take it into perspective.
ReplyDelete2 Samuel 6:
ReplyDelete16And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
15So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.
17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
18And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts.
19And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.
20Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!
21And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD.
22And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.
23Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
Be in reverance when dealing with the Lord's beloved...
"Circle of distraction"...EXACTLY! And if the circle of distraction is coming from a couple next to me, I can hear the hand-against-fabric sound, so I can't even lean forward to block them out. I'm glad to hear it isn't only because I'm single that I find this distracting, even though some Sundays for me there's the added dimension of, "Oh...I'm here all alone...single and not even any family like parents or siblings attending with me...thanks for rubbing that in." (Yes, I used "rubbing" deliberately.)
ReplyDeleteI'd say faerylandmom's way of putting it in her earlier comment can apply to people who are single for any reason: "it's HARD for them to see that kind of affection and not be envious/sad/angry/etc."
(And if anybody I know happens across this comment, no, I don't want to be set up with a friend of a friend of a friend just so I can have somebody who wants to massage my neck in church. Gross.)
Lol wow... the church massagers are striking back!! Some of the church PDA offenders are gettin pretty serious in these comments lol...
ReplyDeleteFaithful members of PAMIC UNITE!!!
Lol im gonna have to prepare my squirt gun and "sass juice" tonight for my PAMIC attack tomorrow morning :D
Lol wow... the church massagers are striking back!! Some of the church PDA offenders are gettin pretty serious in these comments lol...
ReplyDeleteFaithful members of PAMIC UNITE!!!
Lol im gonna have to prepare my squirt gun and "sass juice" tonight for my PAMIC attack tomorrow morning :D
dear nikerg222 - I have to confess that I'm a bit confused by your post. Some passages of Scripture are descriptive ("this is what happened...") and others are prescriptive ("this is what you should do").
ReplyDeleteWhat's your point with the 2 Samuel 6 reference? Is it prescriptive? Is it OK to dance naked in the streets? Is church PDA OK if you just smote the Philistines and you're bringing the Ark into Jerusalem? What if the NY Giants are bringing home the Vince Lombardi trophy? How much church PDA is permissible for such an event! (GO GIANTS!!! - now teamstrand knows who this is!)
this is great and spot-on! i second the PAMIC sass juice squirt guns!
ReplyDeletei once heard a former pastor explain that the "turn to your neighbor and say......." bit is really just a sneaky way of avoiding them having to say "i have completely forgotten what i was going to talk about next so please give me a few seconds to work it out."
ReplyDeleteThe 2nd Samuel reference and the "Be in reverence when dealing with the Lord's beloved..." made my night.
ReplyDeletei'm still chuckling.
Jon, the people you have commenting only adds to the gloriousness of your blogs.
Anon at 8:14; outstanding comment, thank you.
ReplyDeleteIf a movie has captivated me enough I will forget about the trash on the theater floor.
it's completely fine if i pat or "massage" my husband. it's just not okay when other people do it and distract me. or, heaven forbid, when people "massage" someone of the same gender. that makes perfect sense, right? isn't there something about christians liking hypocrisy? :)
ReplyDeleteI don't know if the people in my church aren't affectionate or I'm not observant, but I've never noticed anybody giving massages during the message. I think if I did notice it, it'd annoy me.
ReplyDeleteI am so joining PAMIC! I'm not a touchy person and stuff like that drives me crazy. I even had someone at work ask me if I hug my kid. (The answer is yes.) Just because I'm not a touchy-feely person doesn't make me weird. I'm so glad there are others like me! Haha.
ReplyDeletethis blog and the responses are just what i needed on this sunday morning....a good long laugh. yeah, pda's during service kinda creeps me out. thank for letting me know i'm not alone.
ReplyDeleteJon,
ReplyDelete~Be nice & just 'throw-Skittles'...
*But ''beam 'em'' real good, right between the eyes "David v. Goliath-style" !!! :o
As someone who looks like he ought to be stationed in a corn field to discourage crows, is only funny-peculiar, and who doesn't often smell very nice, may I apply to join PAMIC? (I'm not too bothered one way or another, actually, as, for the above reasons, I've never been the recipient of a massage...)
ReplyDeleteED
http://blog.myspace.com/caughtnottaught
Touching = OK. Side hugs = OK.
ReplyDeleteEnveloping each other like a pair of octopii = ew.
We were in back of a couple once where this happened. Entwined and swaying to the music, massaging during the message, you name it.
Our best guess is that they were newly-empty-nesters, and the freedom of having the kids out of the house was spilling over into church--"the kids aren't here, or here, or here, we can do whatever we want!" It was, like, a g-rated makeout session.
Technically I guess they have freedom in Christ to do such things. I used my freedom in Christ to avert the gaze.
Maybe this isn't wholly related, but I can't stand the obligatory handshakes from greeters when entering a church.
ReplyDeleteEspecially when it's November and everyone is sneezing then shaking, sneezing then shaking. When I come to church late as usual, I'm about the 300th hand. Eww.
I've been an unwilling recipient of the in-church-massage.............yes, even the dog patting style head rub. I love physical touch, and hand holding is sweet to me, as is a protective style arm around the shoulder. At home, receiving a massage requires some elaborate barganing! However, church was a whole different story....I guess since we had to sit there for an hour anyway. And any efforts made to stop said behavior led to serious male pouting. What's a person to do?
ReplyDelete(solution.....I joined choir! and in other services Iusually put the kids between us.) My apologies to those who we as uncomfortable with our actions as I was!
Amber.........
ReplyDeleteI am SOOOOOO with you on the handshake thing. I am not obsessed with germs, but usually just have no time for sickness in my family! I keep a trial size bottle of hand sanitizer in my purse all winter!
I wish I would have read this last night so that I could have been armed with my sass juice this morning, but alas then I would have missed all the fiesty PDAers comments! I'm married and like to cuddle with my husband, but not in church. If you go to my church, lookout, you just might be getting a PAMIC attack!! :)
ReplyDeleteJon,
ReplyDeleteYou have empowered me!! My wife and I are both licensed PAMIC practitioners. So much so, that the threat of a neck rub or scalp scratch, and she will agree to any terms. "Just don't touch me in church!!".
My terms? "After the service, we're makin' purple!"
Gerry
How do I become a member?
ReplyDeleteI'm totally with you.
Seriously, Jon. Thank you for writing this post. I have been a member of PAMIC for years...single and married.
ReplyDeleteThis is to all the massagers: you can't keep your hands off of each other for an HOUR OF YOUR WEEK? Stop feeling like you have to show everybody that you're in a loving relationship at the expense of other people's worship. Please. Just stop.
I think I'm adding the in-church massage to my arsenal of defense. I'll refrain from its use, but if you unleash the child with the candy wrapper or it's siblings, the chair kicker, the whiney pin clicker or the dancing dinosaur on my chair, I'm going to use the in-church massage as a counter strike! Think of it as mutually assured distraction.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm not sure where massage is covered in the bible, I'm quite confident that good parenting is.
You have been warned.
(Yes this is in jest, but if we're mentioning pet peves ...)
I'm sorry - sass juice? That's just simply fantastic!! I have a picture in my mind of making a child drink a spoon of straight vinegar when they SASS their parents. That's totally awesome... ha ha ha
ReplyDeletecan my butt be a billboard for PAMIC?
ReplyDeleteJon - make your posts into a book of Stuff Christians Like. I would buy it. It's like Chicken Soup for the Warped Christian's Soul with a side of funny bone. Awesome!
ReplyDeleteOkay, is it really as bad as everyone is saying or are you all getting swept up in a mob effect and exaggerating how distracting this is?
ReplyDeleteBecause 1) during-sermon massages are nice, and not "distracting to worship" if they're during the sermon, not worship.
2) asking my husband to stop makes him really sad, so I reserve it for extreme situations
3) In my experience, why something distracts me from the sermon, or a class lecture, or whatever, it's because I want to be distracted because it's boring, and
4) there's a couple in our small group that occasionally sits on each other's lap through our discussion time. I think it's awesome. They're cute & loving, and two of the neatest people ever. Why is PDA a problem?
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ReplyDeleteOK. Now you HAVE to tell us about "Sass Juice."
ReplyDeletePlease let me know how I can join-immediately. Though I'm in a house church where this doesn't happen frequently, I support this movement 100%.
ReplyDeleteThe Circle of Distraction. SO TRUE. I can't help but watch their hand go round and round.
ReplyDeleteAlso, jon&ruth, isn't sitting in church taking in the Word of God a form of worship? It's not strictly defined to our time of singing. Just sayin.
Okay, so I'm commenting anonymously on this, but mainly to protect the identity of the guilty parties I plan to out.
ReplyDeleteIn my church, a husband and wife who are typically on the worship team together, HOLD HANDS during worship. While on the worship team.
I cannot take it. Do not touch me unless you are offering me a piece of gum or a thousand dollars.
christianne,
ReplyDeleteI have had to do the back rub thing in choir a lot and I think maybe at camp. At camp, you probably are already sitting by someone you know from your church group so that's a little better. In choir though, it was the first day of school and this boy REALLY hurt me with his version of a "massage".
I want to be a member of PAMIC!! And I want a membership card that is laminated. Because, let's face it, everything's better when it's laminated. heehee.
So I have some things to say about this issue.
One: What about the idea of same- sex massages? Not saying people who are couples...but I once did this in class because well, my friend really needed it. I hope that doesn't invalidate my membership.
Two: Okay, to all the PDAers, this is why it is distracting. It is movement. To me, anything that is movement is distracting to me. If you alternated between pats and rubs and it was completely random, then perhaps it wouldn't bother me as much because I wouldn't be sitting there following the pattern of your rub with my eyes; hypnotized by the same movement over and over again. Up, down, up, down.
Three: I think sitting together shows the rest of us that you love each other. And hand-holding is okay.
Four: Yes, it does make single people feel bad. As someone who once had three different couples she had to politely ask to stop making out on top of her locker, I'm not really a fan of PDA. I really really try to shoot laser beams through my eye at these offenders. But mostly just the vile ones.
Five: I agree. It's hard to say no to the boy pout.
Six: I do sit in the back where I can see everyone, but I sincerely feel like I would be able to sense movement behind me.
Great post and great comments! Thanks for the laughs!
ReplyDeleteI just witnessed a neck-scratching/massage somewhere, but it wasn't at church, I don't think. It does draw the eyes rather hypnotically.
church pda must end!, that is hilarious and disturbing!
well said Jon - while i don't mind a bit of affectionate interaction, and would even say it's encouraging to see couples that are so close, the PDA thing completely gets out of hand!I agree with some of the others, it just forces you to think about the couple's intimacy, NOT COOL. Circular rubberers are pretty annoying, but there ain't nothing worse than the oh-so-gentle scratching, where I'm treated to the holy scribble on your husband/wife's back - STOP ALREADY!! As for moving to another place... this thing is like an epidemic. You can't outrun it! It's distracting and makes me queasy. I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one who feels this way!
ReplyDeletePlease send my membership card and fan club packet immediately.
ReplyDeleteReally, anything that distracts others from worship and hearing God's Word should be avoided when possible.
Can PAMIC please please please be a facebook group? I will join this worthy cause.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with the PAMIC, couples are all the time rubbing and kneading each other during our school chapel. Its distracting, irritating, and lets face it, is a time of worship the place to be exhibiting PDA to , sometimes, a disturbing amount. It's hard enough to stay awake in a 90 degree gym/room, without wanting to use the heads of the multiple couples in front of you, as targets of a big squishy bat. Get a room, no wait, get a masseuse.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading a lot of posts, I decided to bring this up to my man in shining armor. He said that you see couples that "overdue it" but for him it's like a sign of support and kind of like staking your claim. Okay, I know that last part sounds like something "Out of the Wild" but it's not. I appreciate couples who show signs of affection. I know it can be overdone but I'm all for appropriate PDA in church.
ReplyDeletewow. this is great.
ReplyDeleteWe have seats reserved for parents of young children in the back of church, why not PDA-ers? It would be a nice social connection too, they could observe each other's moves and style and learn and grow in PDA. Bonus is that nobody is distracted.
Physical touch is far and away my love language, and even I can't stand the neck rubbing. Kari hit it on the head: Stop feeling like you have to show everybody that you're in a loving relationship at the expense of other people's worship. It's just plain selfish.
ReplyDeleteUm, pay attention to the speaker and not the people around you. Close your eyes when you pray and you won't see the circling. Or, sit in the front row and you won't see anyone.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, while I do enjoy a good massage, especially around the neck and shoulders, receiving one during the service is a little distracting. See me after the service and I'll happily sit there for you.
I DID think I was the only one! We have taken to front-row sitting just to avoid the distraction of one particularly committed neck massaging couple. Another advantage of front row sitting (perhaps you've already covered this in another post) is that during praise songs when we haven't been officially commanded to stand, but some particularly spirit-moved person decides to stand, thus instigating a mass movement, we in the front row can pretend we haven't noticed.
ReplyDeleteI realize this is written tongue-in-cheek, however, I'd like to share my own story.
ReplyDeleteBefore my husband and I were married, we were in church and he was very gently rubbing my back. In the middle of the sermon, the man behind us tapped my fiance on his back and told him to stop doing it, that it was very distracting, and that it was keeping him from listening to the sermon. It was rather humiliating. In fact, if it had been our first time visiting a church, we would never have gone back to that church or any other one again. Maybe that sounds extreme, but if I were someone who had never had any contact with Christians previously, I would have thought this was the way they all acted and church would not be something I would want to ever be involved with again. (In fact, I couldn't help secretly thinking this man was a pervert who couldn't keep his mind on the sermon for whatever reason...)
Several weeks later, the man sought us out and apologized. He said he realized it was wrong of him and he never should have spoken out against it. Of course, we forgave him, but the thing is, if that had been our first time at church, the damage would have been done and he never would have had the chance to apologize.
I guess the moral of the story is if you're uncomfortable with it, keep it to yourself.
a manifesto? yeah, i'm thinking get over it. lots of things distract or annoy lots of people in lots of different ways. learn how to focus and get past it. i love this blog but for some reason this just came off more as a whiny rant than humor.
ReplyDeleteI suppose as with all things debatable, humor is just as subjective. Nothing wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteI thought this was hysterical, enough to send it into ideas at way of the master radio and Todd read it on Tuesday's show. If you'd like,go here, move near the end of the broadcast to 48:58 and have a listen :)
A little irony: right before hearing the above podcast I had just listened to CJ Mahaney's:"Don't Waste Your Humor" and I though of you and this blog, if you ever listen (or already have?) you'll see what I mean..unless the process of subjectivity kick's in a no-go there, heheh ;)
this rant is ridiculous for so many reasons.
ReplyDeletesounds like your pastor's sermon's and/or church sucks if you cant pay attention if someone else is rubbing another person in a non sexual way, or on the other hand have to receive a massage to stay awake. find a new church where there arent boring, 10-pointer sermons that he probably got off the internet.
in my Bible study so far i have yet to find any laws regarding christian church-going, physical touching boundaries. and the theory that if it isnt specifically mentioned in the Bible, that it cant be true/good/or do-able is insane.
someone said this website was funny or cool but im just finding it sad and knit-picky. wake up from your slumber, arise from the dead--the Lord is calling you to greater things.
It sounds real to me...
ReplyDeleteAnywho, we have this mom in our church who scratches her teenage sons back in intricate patterns. For eons at a time. It's hilarious and disturbing. All at the same time.
in response to kerry (second from the top) we yell out to leave room for jesus.
ReplyDeleteI was disturbed by watching a father give his teenaged daughter a prolonged and lingering back/neck rub in a church. Maybe it says something about the way I think, but weird stuff does happen.
ReplyDeleteWhile I believe there are limits to affection in church between husbands and wives, and most certainly between dating couples, I really think you have taken this issue way too far, to the point of distraction. In fact, I would categorize this now as sheer gossip, something the Lord abhors. "Did you see that couple massaging each other's necks in church? How scandalous!" I would caution you all to remember Colossians 4:2-6, "Continue steadfastly in prayer, being watchful in it with thanksgiving. At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison— that I may make it clear, which is how I ought to speak. Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person." I am not hearing grace in your conversations, nor am I hearing salt and light, but rather judgmentalism. Remember how our Lord Jesus himself heard the judging thoughts of others and called people on it. Let God deal with the hearts and actions of others, so long as blatant sin does not abound, and stop being pharisees!
ReplyDeleteOk I agree church PDA should be on the down low, but massages are not just a bedroom thing, I happen to love giving people massages everyone appreciates them exspecially stressed out people. If what someone infront of you is doing is causing you to loose focus on what the preacher is preaching either get yourself checked out for ADD or get a more interesting pastor. Church is still a public place where people are in fact allowed to express themselves freely. Its only the fact that massages are looked at provocativly when people should realize it is a proven type of therapy. As far as someone rubbing a back my best friend was crying during worship service so I rubbed her back in comfort are you really going to tell me that i was in the wrong? I think you are just a conservative and you need to realize that not everyone is like you and if they are comfortable with showing affection in church you should be open minded about it. If it bothers you move your seat. If you feel you should not have to politely ask them to discontinue the massage. this is kind of ridiculous to start a whole blog about it get real people, there are people out there who need spirtual growth and salvation and you are caught up and people laying hands on one another GET OVER IT!!
ReplyDeleteSo I was reading "The Screwtape Letters," by C.S. Lewis, and there was a section where the demon was told to distract the protagonist during church by influencing him to think about other members in the congregation in a demeaning way. I wonder if we're really benefited by getting so worked up about what other people are doing in church. Even if you personally don't engage in "neck massages" you probably have habits that annoy other people. It's a shocking thought! Let's all just relax, and stop worrying about what others are doing. Remember, Jesus came to be a servant. Servants quietly put up with all kinds of awkwardness. Let's lose the selfish preoccupation with our own desires and learn how to serve one another by being patient. Likewise, public cuddlers be mindful of this and try to think of ways to serve your neighbors.
ReplyDeleteI sat behind a man in church who, instead of clapping during the worship songs, would pat his wife's bum. He had rhythm; I'll give him that.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was younger I thought that massaggers, nail clippers, goof-off-ers, were quite brave, in a devil-may-care sort of way. In the "good old days" our church taught that if you distracted someone from hearing the gospel and they went to hell, their blood was on YOUR hands. It was a real incentive to me to listen.
ReplyDeleteImagine my chagrin when one night during a "revival", Vance Havner stopped his sermon and watched silently, as my sister and her friend rose from the front pew and headed out the back door, past about 20 rows! Five minutes later when they returned, he waited just as silently as they walked back to their seats. At which point he picked up right where he had left off.
As for me, being easily distracted, neck rubs and the like are what have driven me to the front row. I'm happy up there just watching what's going on in front of me, and anyone behind me who is doing distracting things is safe from being glared at and judged by me. And I am saved from becoming a self-righteous prig. At least that's how I'm hoping it's working.
Loved your post, BTW. Was reading the one about saving pews, saw this one, and had to read it--sign me up for PAMIC.
As the wife of a police officer who has back problems there have been many times when I have had to rub a knot in his back just to allow him a few more minutes of sitting during the sermon. Luckily (I guess) it's his mid-back so hopefully we aren't distracting to anyone!
ReplyDeleteChruch is for worship not for judging your neighbors!
ReplyDeleteI visited my sister's church and they have a rule where if a baby cries, an usher will walk to the row with the boisterous baby, and point/waggle a finger at the parents to remove the child. I am thinking of suggesting this method for the church-massagers and "hand-in-the-back-pocket-of-spouse" people at my church...
ReplyDelete"We have massagers in sector B, row 5."
**insert pointing/finger waggling usher here****
Church massaging/PDA is something I tend to ignore or not even notice, and I rarely if ever feel envious or sad because I'm single and don't have a spouse/boyfriend.
ReplyDeleteWhat I CAN deal with is
1. Chaste and non-prolonged kisses between married couples, including pastors. I think it's sweet and signifies a healthy relationship.
2. Couples putting an arm around each other (and that's all) I also think this is sweet.
3. Hand-holding (except at youth church)
But what I don't like is a person putting their hand in the back pocket (or anywhere else in that vicinity) of their spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend. That seems too intimate for a church setting.
Um.
ReplyDeleteStop being distracted.
Fairly simple, really.
Take responsibility for your own inability to concentrate during a sermon. If it bugs you so much, move.
I mean, really?
If you're a non-touch sort of a person, that's just who you are, but you have no right to be offended at the way someone else expresses their affection for their spouse, significant other, or child simply because it doesn't fit in your "DON'T TOUCH ME!" world.
I would be silly to be offended at you for *not* hugging your spouse in public.
You are silly for being offended at the opposite.
I know this was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, but it comes across as unbelievably judgmental.
This post and the comments made my afternoon! I laughed so hard my kids think I have lost my mind.
ReplyDeleteI soooo hate church PDA. And, yes, I realize that "hate" is a very strong word.
There used to be a couple who sat a couple pews in front of us, and they were the worst offenders. He played with her hair. Many Sundays, I thought he would get her hair so tightly wound around his finger, he'd lose circulation.
Sometimes, she reached UNDER his shirt to rub his back. IN CHURCH! During the sermon! I may have even heard him moan in pleasure once. Ok, probably not that last part. But she really did put her hand beneath his shirt to massage his back, skin-to-skin. Ewwwwww. Get a room!
It's funny to me that the pro-PDAers are so serious about it! Do you get tired of these anonymous people preaching sermons to you?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you!! Hilarious.
Today in church the couple on front of us sitting very close and the man was massaging her leg for at least ten minutes. It became so annoying that I did tap his shoulder and ask it to stop. Wow talk about a man pout! He turned attention and told me she had pain. Well take a Tylenol! And save the rubbing ( that he was definitely enjoying for layer. NOT IN CHURCH. I felt bad that I had upset him so wrote a note of apology and commended him for being such a caring husband, but massage does not belong in church services. It was completely unnecessary in that setting. Then I found this blog and glad my reactions were valid. Sign me up!
ReplyDeleteYou don’t have to search for a bible verse to respond to this. I see this every Sunday to the point I can’t pay attention to the sermon. A father massages his wife’s neck with both his thumb on one side of her neck and his fingers on the other. Can last 10 minutes. It’s rude. I took a picture with my cell phone and plan on sending it to the church office to address this. She has long hair which she flips to one side which sends a hint to him to massage her. They are super strict with their 3 upper teenage kids who don’t move their head left or right to look at each other. It’s the parents who are offensive.
ReplyDelete