A few months ago I wrote a post about Todd Bentley, a gentleman professing faith healing in Florida.
Nightline recently did a story on him and after it came out, ABC got some interesting news: After this story aired on "Nightline," Fresh Fire Ministries released a statement announcing that preacher Todd Bentley would be taking time off "to refresh and to rest" after having spent four months in Lakeland, Fla., leading revival meetings. In the meantime their Lakeland broadcasts on GOD TV are put on hold.
I actually was surprised at how the story was written because the author didn't really seem to push Bentley until he had been given a chance to tell his story. Then the article by ABC says:
When asked to present evidence of the healings, Bentley promised to give "Nightline" the names and medical records of three followers who would talk openly about his miracles. He never delivered. Instead, his staff gave "Nightline" a binder filled with what he says are inspiring miracles, but with scant hard evidence. It offered incomplete contact information, a few pages of incomplete medical records, and the doctors' names were crossed out.
Is Bentley doing God's work? I don't know. I've never been down to his ministry and after feeling like I sounded like a jerk in the post I wrote about him kicking old ladies in the face, I don't feel like I am in a position to really offer any sort of great comment on what he is doing. (It's so easy to be judgmental with stuff like this.) But recently, the Baptist Press posted an article by a seminary professor with an autistic son who went to a Bentley service to be healed and wrote about the experience.
Do either of these articles offer a complete view? No. Is judging other people or other ministries unfairly a good thing to do? No. Should we take our opinion of what is right with God and what is wrong with God from ABC? No. But these articles do give a lot more information than my piece did, especially the professor's story, so I thought you might want to see them.
Nightline Article
Baptist Press Article
Good post. Who are we to judge another's calling or ministry? God is bigger than we think and He can do what He wants. He doesn't ask us if we are comfortable with it.
ReplyDelete"...after feeling like I sounded like a jerk in the post I wrote about him kicking old ladies in the face...."
ReplyDeleteJon, I appreciate completely what you are saying, but you have to admit that this sentence taken in or out of context is pretty funny.
I have some friends who went down to Lakeland FL for this. They are friends of our family and the husband has parkinsons. He was called on stage and prayed for. We watched the video of the event that night to see him. Whether or not he was healed, I don't know - I know that I have seen him since and he seems to be the same. I agree with being open to ministry that is outside of our own comfortability and that was a challenge I faced watching it, but as my husband and I talked about it later I realized that the healing was not what I felt uncomfortable about. My discernment was kicking in and I was uncomfortable with Bentley's focus on himself and how great his ministry is to heal all these people. It seemed to be more about the theatrics than about God. Just thought I would share my experience.
ReplyDeleteyet another sad example of a man who claims to heal because its good business. I shudder to think of how harsh his judgment will be after defrauding, lying, and falsely representing the Word. and my heart aches for the professor's family as well as the many others who came away sad -- may they not lose hope in a powerful God simply because of a power-mongering man.
ReplyDeleteThe link to the Baptist Press piece doesn't work...
ReplyDeleteLike most, I am pretty skeptical of faith healers, while at the same time being pretty sure God is a God who heals.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, just once I'd like a faith healer to say
"I'm leaving this revival tent and I'm going to the Children's Wing of a Hospital to pray for sick kids. I have no idea if the miraculous healings I've been seeing at my services will happen here, but I'm willing to look foolish if God's healing power does not flow through me."
Now that would make me say Amen!
It seems, however, that there are many clear injunctions (1 Timothy is replete) to protect people from someone who is abusing them through false doctrine and motives that are driven by money-grabbing.
ReplyDeleteWhether Bentley is a charlatan is another issue. But if he is then he needs to be revealed as one. And doing so is not "judgmental." Hucksters are not to be given privileged treatment. Cheating little old ladies and desperate parents out of their money so that a loved one will be healed is evil.
i posted on my blog about bentley a while back and had some very interesting comments.
ReplyDeletejudge his ministry by what scripture says about healing and prophecy. it speaks for itself.
he's a wackjob!
What I want to know is: Why is he giving out private medical information to the news media in the first place? I mean, I suppose that he might be getting signed permission to do so, but still.
ReplyDeleteIf he really wants to prove that he's performed actual healings, perhaps he should select someone who is obviously disabled to the point where it cannot be faked, and heal that person. Someone who has a physical deformity or even a missing limb.
I mean, maybe that's callous, but for a national news outlet that millions of skeptics are potentially watching, I'd want to roll out the slam-dunk, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt cases. Nothing vague, nothing that can be explained away in any other way. And that don't require private health information to prove their validity.
I hope that wouldn't be considered tempting God!
Good valuable information here.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason, the post is not showing up in my RSS feed. I don't know if others have the same issue, but you may want to contact whoever publishes your feeds about it. Because it would be sad if readers of your original post missed it.
The Bible does call us to judge people claiming to speak for God. We are called to speak out against false prophets and preachers. Not to say Bentley is or isn't one, just we can't sacrifice truth to not being judgemental. The Bible lays out a few very clear things that are not acceptable in a prophet or teacher. Read the Scriptures and judge all ministries on that. Not petty intramural doctrinal disputes but big things. Things that definitley go agaist clear teachings of the Bible.
ReplyDeletePraying to angels.
prophesies that proven false.
these are two that faith healers are often guilty of although I honestly do not know enough about Bentley to be certain.
God can use anyone anytime for anything. But look at the Bible for guidance. Not a lot of healers. There were certainly a lot people who healed but they were all apostles and rabbis etc first. God used them to heal. Healer doesn't seem to become a vocation until much later in history, and that is reason enough to be suspicious.
PS. I give him more leeway than other faith healers since he looks cool.
After reading the two articles linked, I feel sad inside. It sounds to me like perhaps Todd Bentley has allowed his excitement about what happened in his life to blot out the fact that it's God who really deserves the Glory, not money or power or recognition.
ReplyDeleteIn cases like this, I find myself grateful that only God knows the heart, and that in the end, He knows the ultimate truth behind a person's motives. Who knows if Todd Bentley is genuine...God can still use ANY situation for His purpose. I'm just really really glad that we don't have to make the call. Personally, I would stay faaaar far away from any 'service' Todd was putting on.
I was discouraged by both articles.
ReplyDeleteI watched the Nightline segment right after visiting Lakeland myself for the fourth night, only two of which Bentley himself was ministering. The interviewer took an attack posture with Bentley, and repeatedly refused to correctly acknowledge that Bentley does NOT claim he can heal anyone - he repeatedly points out that God does the healing. I would be interested to hear the ministry's response to problems with the press package, but I have PERSONAL knowledge of at least three healings in my own church from this ministry. Confirmed medically and/or visually.
As to the Baptist Press article, the author complains about the tent clearing out after midnight - even ministers like Bentley have limited endurance, and if they stayed until 4am, so would a thousand people hoping for a miracle. They HAVE to put a reasonable time limit on things. And if you're not willing to press in for healing - like visiting several times - where's the faith? Finally, a BIG part of Bentley's ministry is spreading the gift, not being the one-and-only. Anyone who has listened to him speak for more than one night has heard this many times: take it back to your church, because ANYONE can be used by God for healing and deliverance and salvation. Bentley is not a magic man - he's humbly trying to serve God with the gift he was given. It's easy to point out apparent flaws with his ministry; it's much harder to find the Truth.
I think there are occasions in which it is extremely important to judge the validity of another's ministry, with the distinction between judgment to condemn and judgment to discern. In Matthew 7, Jesus says, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Its unfair and ridiculous to judge/condemn someone because their actions are sinful, because we're full of it too. But it'd be appropriate to judge/discern someone's actions as good or bad -- as Christians, shouldn't we be held accountable to each other? Not only that, but something as important as the Florida Revival needs to be carefully weighed, because if it is real it is definitely something I'd want to joyfully tell everybody about and participate in and praise God for. If its fake, its a serious injustice to everybody, for taking advantage of Christians' faithfulness and for being an awful witness to non-believers.
ReplyDeleteAll that is groundwork to say... I don't believe this ministry is operating in a Godly manner. I didn't believe it when I watched the videos available online. That's all reinforced by the seminary professor's experience, as it was creepily similar to an experience I had with revival events. I believed the minister up front was the healer he claimed to be, and I spent the night crying when I got home because the old woman in the wheelchair was still too weak to walk, and the mute boy still couldn't/wouldn't utter a single word, when onstage the minister brandished their newfound healing. Its an extreme violation to fellow Christians to lie about something so important, and I'm really scared that this is what is happening in Florida. =(
Sorry for the long post, and if I ended up sounding high and mighty. o_oa
Earthless has some things to say about Bentley.
ReplyDeletehttp://earthless.wordpress.com/
We are called to be as the Bereans. We are to hold one that claims to be a man of God to biblical standard.
Jon, you aren't a jerk. Bentley is for kicking an old woman in the face, kicking a terminally ill advanced staged cancer patient in the stomach..... for.... and for....
To all those people mentioning the ones who DIDN’T get healed from Bentley:
ReplyDeleteGod answers prayers of faith. And faith works by love. If you are not in your love walk with your neighbors, then I don't believe God will answer your prayer. See Mt 5:23,24.
Faith mixed with love, my friend is how you will receive your healing. Not by attending a service "hoping" you will be healed by a man. It's times like these that many people glorify the man being used for the healing, even though he specifically states it is God working through him.
Just wanted to clarify that.
To Jake, I love how you blame the people who didn't get healed for just not having enough faith. Isn't that always the response when Christians go through trials? When God doesn't act like the puppet we want him to be? "God would have saved your daughter from the car wreck if you just had more faith." "God would have healed the tumor if she had prayed more/harder/better."
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I don't want to serve a God like that. And I'm glad that's not how the God of the Bible describes himself.
http://www.thelakelandrevival.com/
ReplyDeleteThis is a blog/website that is very balanced in it's approach to Todd Bentley and what is going on. It has a lot of testimonies that are cool to read.
I think it's important to rejoice with those who have been healed, and continue to press in for healing of those who haven't. We need to be faithful in the small things, thanking God for any amount of healing. And I think we have to be secure enough in who God says that He is, to not have to have an answer for why something didn't happen. Just because we are insecure and don't trust that God is good and faithful, doesn't give us a place to make God look like less than He is because we can't explain Him. We fall back on the need to make excuses when something isn't what we think it should be. It's ok that we don't know why some were healed and some weren't. The fact is that people were healed, and for that God deserves praise and glory and thanks.
I believe that God wants us to walk as Jesus walked. Jesus said "And as you go and preach, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers..." matt 10:8. Not one person who came to Jesus sick left sick. Jesus had an incredible ministry and saw some unbelievable things, and then He tells us "you will do EVEN GREATER THINGS than these" John 14:12 Greater things than healing the sick and raising the dead?! God wants us to walk in power, that's why He gave us the Holy Spirit. And the Spirit was so important that He told the disciples not to leave until the Spirit came upon them. The Spirit is God in us. It enables us to walk fully reliant on the Father. It enables us to know the Father's heart and to walk in power. I believe that the gospel needs to be demonstrated in power. We need to be able to prove that our God does what He says He does in the Word, that He does desire healing, and that He is powerful, and He does love people tremendously more than we could ever imagine. We can't be afraid to go after healing. We can't be afraid to encounter the Living God and to pray that other people would encounter Him too.
If you don't think Todd bentley is of the Lord, pray he would encounter Him. Don't speak against him.
I don't think we are big enough to stand in the way of God's promise to us.
ReplyDeletehttp://newthingscoming.blogspot.com/2008/03/healing.html
Lately something has become apparent to me. Namely this: radical Charismatics will believe almost anything if it contains a modicum of amusement and at least a passing reference to Jesus. I don't know what else to conclude when the unabashed showmanship which is being daily displayed in Lakeland Florida passes for a Christian revival. Is this sort of formulaic hucksterism what Christianity is all about? If it is, then man oh man I wish I had taken the blue pill. Don't get me wrong-I'm not afraid or intimidated by the goings on down South. I would just hate to think that I'd banked my life on a religion which checks its brain at the door in favor of an experience much less enthralling than Bonnaroo (and with a lot crappier music). I know I haven't but even the concept is worth a shudder. By now I've watched a good bit of the Lakeland ‘process' and am beginning to feel as if I'd seen a continuous loop of a bad SNL revival parody (SNL would have been funnier though and at least the odd knowledge that ‘this is trying to pass as authentic' doesn't trouble me in a bad SNL parody). Really though, it's not even very good comedy, I mean, the whole ‘Bam' old-lady-hits-the-floor thing is only funny the first couple of times, and then...wellllll. You get my point.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, I am not sure that people are being healed at the Lakeland revival. Yeah I've read the testimonies, seen the x-rays, watched the people fall down on stage, and heard all about William Branham's healing angel. I am sure that there are many people who are so enamored with the idea of supernatural healing that they think that they must believe that they have been healed or somehow their faith is impure. I am sure that many people believe that if they say that they have been healed then they will be, eventually. I am sure that many people have so strongly tied their Christianity to sight and not faith.
By that same token, I am painfully aware that this post touches a deep nerve in the radical Charismatic body. It offends one of their most deeply felt desires, that is for one day, in some meeting, prayer group, worship service, conference, that they will get the ultimate Holy Ghost ‘fix'. This is why so many are spiritual junkies (and I was one of them) on a tireless hunt for that definitive experience which will finally tell them that they have arrived as truly 'spiritual'. Even so, I must emphatically state that ascended spiritual masters are not Christians. Christians live within an effective and certain hope of a future reality. The ‘Not yet' aspect of glorification (when we will see Jesus and have the power of glorified bodies) is not within our grasp already. Radical Charismatics miss this tension entirely. They suffer from an over-realized eschatology which drives them in continual attempts to lasso the future and bring it into the present.
The various negative responses that I've encountered in my last post, ‘Todd Bentley in His Element', confirm the existence of this radical Charismatic sore spot. In exposing Bentley's beliefs I attack the validity of the current great hope for many radical Charismatics. Seriously, the fact that Paul Cain and Bob Jones endorse Bentley should be reason enough to take pause. But that is only secondary to the real issue which is this: The miracles aren't the main thing. The belief which is promulgated alongside them is. Miracles fade faith is staid. Radical Charismatics are brainwashed into believing that surreptitious show business is what God is ‘really doing now' through self-appointed super apostles, as opposed to meeting men and women (his children) through the suffering, mundane drudgery, minute joys, and fading mortality of this life. Baby-steps of faith. I would like to believe that hour by hour, day by day, we become more like Christ as we move into the purposeful future of our glorification-the time of which He has planned. That's simply not fantastic enough-radical Charismatics need some canned excitement. The normal Christian life is too much about faith and perseverance and repentance, not enough about power and miracles and speaking things into existence. This dichotomy between conviction and impression spawns a false hope driving its victims to project their desire at the earliest presenting opportunity. Desire for the spectacular becomes so strong that when it is manufactured in live mockumentary via the Lakeland reality show, ahem, "healing revival", that the first whiff of the miraculous is enough to cause a frenzy. The frenzy becomes a melee, and the melee becomes a phenomenon. Now it is simply too big to discredit.
The Lakeland healing revival will be a footnote in the trainwreck which has become modern and post-modern radical Charismaticism. Lakeland will end up like Toronto, desperately trying to recapture the ‘move' of an earlier time. People will drift away, carried by the high for a time, only to detox hard if they can't find another fix quickly enough. Others will come forward and admit to lying about healings, gold teeth, and pins melting out of their legs just like they did at the Airport Vineyard. Finally, some will be driven out of radical Charismatic practice by the Holy Spirit when the bottom falls out of the experiential entrepreneurship they've subjected themselves to. These will find solace in the beauty of the normal, human existence which the gospel allows for. Dying daily is not sexy, but it is real. I'll take the real thank you.
Onenews.com had an article about how Bentley's "crusade" in Florida was causing dissension among charismatic circles. That may be as much the reason for his vacation as anything. His "ministry" merits spiritual testing.
ReplyDeleteGreg's and Jake's comments bring up another thing that might be worthy of some "instigating" - the whole not having enough faith and trying to figure out why God doesn't heal everyone, prosper everyone, rescue everyone and et cetera. I firmly believe in God's ability to heal and present miraculous signs. Scripture seems clear to me that He doesn't change in this regard and I've also witnessed healings.
Yet, I've been in the hospital room with families of extremely godly and devout people, who died. "Why didn't God heal them?" is often asked. I've been with families when their child was killed in an accident. "Why did God let this happen to my baby?" is often asked. I've been there when a mother lost her infant child to SIDS; she asked, "Why did God take my baby from me?" Should I tell these people it's because of sin or lack of faith or unforgiveness? Sometimes, we argue about ideas, forgetting that we're talking about people. Thankfully, God never does forget that we're just people and that we sure do need Him.
I appreciate the humor and now I also appreciate your heart.
ReplyDeleteThe Florida Outpouring is obviously striking a chord with a lot of people. I have been received tons and tons of reports that are completely opposite of what this minister's experience was. I didn't read the Nightline article yet...here's what I do know. God heals. He heals in all kinds of situations. And the Bible is crystal clear that we are to bring our infirmities to Him. I will be honest, I don't undestand a lot past that. I know I have experiences miraculous healings in my life. I also know of times that people have laid hands on me and nothing happened. And I don't know what the difference was. I am still searching out God's heart on that one.
ReplyDeleteI don't feel like I can judge Todd Bentley's ministry. I am hearing too many conflicting reports, and I have not heard from the Lord on it. I want to believe he's doing God's work, I want to back him up on it and take a stand for faith healings, because I know they happen. And I know that people are being tremendously blessed in FL right now. And apparently some aren't.
I saw the movie Vantage Point the other night, and I saw a lot of spiritual application...we see in part. We only see in part. We can't know everything that is going on. We have to ask God for the rest of the story.
Sooo...I think the right response is to pray for the revival, pray for Todd Bentley, and pray for truth and righteosness and to have the eyes of God. And let Him handle the sorting out of what's right and wrong here.
Sara: well said! :)
ReplyDeleteWe can't forget that we have a God who is SO much bigger than us and so far beyond our understanding. Sometimes we pray for healing and it doesn't come. I've had a chronic headache since January, and have been prayed for so many times - but the headache's still there. I don't believe that this is because either myself or the people praying for me don't have enough faith, but sometimes God uses physical illness to talk to us. We may not know why we're not healed of something, but all we can do is trust that somehow that ailment is being used to glorify God. Todd may have prayed for some people who weren't healed, but that doesn't detract from how amazing it is that so many people HAVE been healed.
Regardless of whether we do or don't agree with Todd's ways of healing people, so many people have given their lives to Jesus because of what's going on in Lakeland. (I don't have an official count, but I'm sure it must be in the thousands) That's AWESOME, and maybe the amount of people who've been saved because of this is what we need to be focusing on, rather than disagreeing with the way he prays for people.
This story in the baptist press broke my heart. I'm not God so I 'm not 100% on this. But based on what I know of scripture this guys ministry is unfortunately a sham. Not because of the healing stuff but because the focus on him instead of Christ. How sad. As to the faith thing, we know from the Bible that faith is a component in answered prayer and miracles. But I don't know why God heals some and not others. I don't have those answers. I've been praying for something for years and believe God can and will do it. Why have I waited so long? I don't know, but I do know this that God is good no matter what. That to me is faith worth having.
ReplyDeleteI think Mr. Bentley should praise God for His grace, without which there could be a whole lightning deal.
ReplyDeleteJon, I love your blog. It is one of the first things I check when I have a chance. You are truly a brilliant writer and you have an amazing sense of humor. We are all learning to laugh at ourselves a little.
ReplyDeleteHowever it saddens me to see your site used as a forum for people who would bash a brother in Christ because he does things that don't fit inside the boundaries of our safe comfortable western God box. How do you think God feels about someone calling his child a "wack job"? Adamblack, if you don't want to believe in healing and prophecy that's fine. But do you think you have the market cornered on God? Do you think you know everything there is to know about the Almighty Creator of everything? Are you that arrogant? Are we all that arrogant to think that we have it all figured out? Seriously people, remember the old saying "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all."? The last thing the church needs is more divisiveness. Think what you want about Todd Bentley but keep your mouth shut until you have walked in his shoes.
For those few defending Bentley, I ask this question:
ReplyDelete"How is he being Christlike?"
Again, to examine a person is what we are called to do. It isn't bashing.. it is holding his ministry up to the STANDARD of the Word of God.
Ever heard of "wolf in sheep's clothing?"
Mr. Bentley is all but howling at the moon.
I think your comment "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" is actually part of the problem with the church currently. In today's church and society itself it seems we have lost our voice. We no longer are able to be honest even with our church friends because we don't want to offend with words that might be viewed as harsh or not loving. I prefer to see someone speak their mind whether right or wrong. Kumbaya is great but who invigorates the youth of the church with debate and harsh truths. Being loving in times or struggle and pain should be expected and so also should a clear view of the truth. I think I lean towards charlatan on this one and this blog has already opened doors to discussion with friends. So I am quite ok with opinions, both those who posture in support or Bentley and those who do not. Enjoy it. You won't see this discussion in the pews of your church.
ReplyDeleteDa bees knees,
ReplyDeleteWill you please explain precisely what scriptural mandate Bentley has directly broken? I hear a lot of that on these comments but I haven't seen any scripture. My whole point is not to not debate the issue; my point is to not call names and tear people down because you disagree with them theologically.
Lin,
ReplyDeleteYOU may not see this discussion in the pews of your church, but I do. I think Sam is RIGHT on with his post. In regards to "being honest with our church friends"....is Todd Bentley one of your church friends? I highly doubt it. Sam was merely pointing out the stupidity of calling someone a "whack job" along with some other posts. I am new to this blog and I enjoy it, but come on people, let's go save the lost and dying and not pick apart someones unconventional ministry.
The church is beginning to sound a lot less like John the Baptist and a lot more like a brood of vipers.
Blessings!
Natrimony, is this a prophecy? I hope you can hear how prejudiced you sound in this. Healthy debate is wonderful, but this is nothing more than hate. Have you been to Lakeland? Do you know Mr. Bentley personally? Not liking someone or something does not give you the right to condemn. Keep your hateful religion to yourself.
ReplyDelete"The Lakeland healing revival will be a footnote in the trainwreck which has become modern and post-modern radical Charismaticism. Lakeland will end up like Toronto, desperately trying to recapture the ‘move' of an earlier time. People will drift away, carried by the high for a time, only to detox hard if they can't find another fix quickly enough. Others will come forward and admit to lying about healings, gold teeth, and pins melting out of their legs just like they did at the Airport Vineyard. Finally, some will be driven out of radical Charismatic practice by the Holy Spirit when the bottom falls out of the experiential entrepreneurship they've subjected themselves to."
SamL, the following are some talking points from a discussion on Mr. Bentley:
ReplyDeleteLet’s start here:
1)The angel “Emma” that Bentley speaks of:
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8-9
2)Mr. Bentley does many things in the name of “Bam” so… not sure if it applies but here ya go:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
3) Signs and Wonders:
Satan can perform false signs and wonders.
True = of God.
False = of satan or demons.
False doesn't always mean faked. 'False' can refer to the power behind the miracle, a power which is very real but not of God. Rev 13:13 states that fire will come down from heaven through the power of the beast. It doesn't say it's only an illusion of fire... it says it's real fire which comes through real power.
Rev 13:13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
In fact, there are no limitations put on the types of false signs and wonders that can occur. That's why it's such a deception:
2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders...
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Pagan and occult practitioners also claim to receive miraculous healings and signs... so does that make it of God?? This should tell you that there is a false power at work in the world that deceives many.
Test the spirits. When reading through the list of what Todd Bentley preaches, practices, and promotes, we find unbelievable greed, arrogance, false teaching, false prophecy, false miracles, false signs and wonders, promotion of self-induced trance and meditative states, visions of spirit guides, unBiblical claims of visiting levels of heaven. It's not that hard to put two and two together.
Brian, I think you misunderstand my point. A group of opinions such as in this blog, whether they be the same or completely different, are worthy of being discussed.
ReplyDelete"Brood of vipers" is John the Baptist's own quote. Call a spade a spade. Bentley and his ministry team seem to fit that in my own opinion.
As for saving the lost and dying do you think only Christians read this post? What is sometimes seen as division is often an opportunity to talk. This particular blog has created many opportunities to talk openly about the church with the lost.
Here is a link to read what Mr. Bentley had to say about angels and his heavenly visits.
ReplyDelete*I cannot fix the link, so copy and paste, please.
http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html
I just wanted to agree with those that said it's ok to judge Todd Bentley.
ReplyDeleteIn American culture we have become so politically correct, that we are told not to criticize anyone. And in our Christian subculture we grab a hold of "judge not lest you be judged", take it out of context, and then tell everyone not to be so critical.
Lin actually took the words out of my mouth. Let's call a spade a spade. There are plenty of scriptures that warn us about false prophets. How are we to be obedient to scripture and avoid them if we don't take the time to evaluate a person's "ministry"?
I don't like linking to other sites, but I thought this audio clip explains it better than I can.
Lin,
ReplyDeleteI most certainly did not miss the point. You are saying that "This particular blog has created many opportunities to talk openly about the church with the lost."
As well as...
"What is sometimes seen as division is often an opportunity to talk."
Do you know what, Lin? I made a serious mistake here.
You're right. There is NOTHING that sounds divisive or makes us sound like idiots about:
Poster 1: Todd Bentely is a fraud!
Poster 2: No he's not...no he's not.
Poster 3: Yes he is, I read an article about him on CNN.com.
Poster 4: No he's not...Charisma says he is the next Oral Roberts or Oprah!
Poster 5: But he has tatoos, and he hasn't gone to everyones personal doctors and received medical records personally and turned them over to Barabara Walters for her divine perspective on it.
Poster 6: I think he is the next Benny Hinn. Noooo!
Poster 7: But...but he doesn't have hair like Benny Hinn.
Poster 8: But he WAS wearing white in one of the meetings they showed on Dateline.
Poster 9: Do you think that's the connection, Poster 8?
Poster 8: Absolutely. Sean Hannitty is reporting that Todd and Benny are 3rd cousins twice removed.
Poster 10: Doesn't Benny Hinn sweat a lot?
Come on you guys, I am glad that the moderator of this blog began this discussion, because it's good that we all share out faith and feelings, but let's move on and focus on what's really important to God...people, community, faith hope and love.
I don't think we need a long, drawn out analyzation of the theological practices of Todd Bentley or anyone. People disect my pastor all the time, and there is far more negative press about him online than there is positive.
But it doesn't change the fact that countless people come to know Jesus through the ministry, and that is what matters to God.
"The will of God is than none should perish but all should rip Todd Bentley a new one and argue with each other about whether or not he is "legit"."
Blessings!
Wow bees, pretty weak arguments. Extra biblical does not equal anti biblical.The word "Trinity" is extra biblical. This will be my last comment. It hurts my heart to read the negativity without solid backing and knee jerk reactions to anything Charismatic. Have there been abuses? Of course. Have there been false prophecies in the past? Yes. Have people used God's name to cheat and swindle people? Yes. Does that automatically disqualify every Charismatic preacher? No.
ReplyDeleteAll I ever wanted was some fair debate, but what I have read is judgemental, poorly supported attacks. Do not think that you know all there is to know about God.
Have the last word if you feel it is necessary. I will be moving on and laughing hysterically at whatever Jon posts tomorrow.
I appreciate everyone's very convicted responses, even the variances of opinion. There is some truth in much of it. This is all I want to say.
ReplyDeleteMatthew 7:15-20 " "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them... A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
Matt 13:24-30 "Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
We should be cautious about whom we follow. But, ultimately the Lord will call out the false teachers to account for their fruit. (good or bad)
Brian, pretty funny... I think I have had that conversation before. I guess the question is how many have come to God and how many have run away?
ReplyDeleteThe closest comparison would be Jim Baker. Very successful preacher and swindler (yes I know he repented and I love that). The point being that groups of people coming to God is not a reason to avert our eyes from the truth of who the messenger is.
How many people have come to know Christ through Bentley? Probably a lot more than I think. I guess the question I would really like an answer to in how many people have walked away? I spend a lot of time with those who have been injured by the church and it usually comes down to "but they said...", they being the leadership or trusted ones. As a messenger Bentley should be scrutinized and if found to be a charlatan then the response should be pretty negative.
I am sure this evening my conversation will somewhat revolve around this blog and the language will probably be much more colorful than what is on this blog.
I look forward to it.
Brian Foster Kane,
ReplyDeleteIf I took some of your music, changed the lyrics, and threw in a kazoo solo for good measure, then started selling the music under your name, would you not be upset? Or would you say, "well as long as my music is being played, it doesn't matter." No, because it's not your music.
In the same way, if someone is teaching something under God's name that is not of God, then I am going to challenge it even if I appear divisive.
Yes, I know that my analogy is probably flawed. And I do know that Philippians 1:8 says "the important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."
But like I said in my previous posts, there are plenty of scripture that warn against false teachers and if it takes a debate to figure out who those heretics are, I'm willing to do it.
Sorry, 1 last comment:
ReplyDeleteLets freshen up with a little unity shall we? Can we all agree that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life and that no man comes to the father but by Him?
I feel better. :)
SamL,
ReplyDeleteI will leave you a few verses. But first, I will say this: extrabiblical is a BIG FLAG when it is something that is DIRECTLY taught as evil.
Secondly, we are discussing Mr. Bentley...NOT the Trinity. (another time, mate?)
And lastly, there is no weakness in the Word. It is for the edification and exhhortation of the saints for the perfecting of the Church.
And now the verses:
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12
(New King James Version)
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Wow! What a mixed array of emotions & judgments THIS post has brought. I have watched some of the Lakeland revival on-line and probably thought some of the very same thoughts that each and everyone has posted.
ReplyDeleteI have felt encouraged because I, too, am believing God for the miraculous in MY life--BY FAITH--placing my hope in God alone. Have you prayed for healing for yourself or a loved one? Have you, as a parent, travailed for the healing of a child? I have--I am. Do I believe God can heal? Yes, if I believe the Word of God is true. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He healed then, He heals now.
Do I believe He uses man? See above beliefs. Jesus said that we would do even greater works than He did. Have we seen that in the church--yet? really?? We call ourselves Believers, and yet we doubt so quickly. Me included-I confess!
In fact I must say Todd Bentley has offended the Religious Spirit in me many times. He doesn't act, speak or look like the church thinks he should..right?
HMMM-sounds a little like the same criticism that Jesus received from the Pharisees--waayy back when--when He didn't look, act or sound like they thought He should. His past was not what the Pharisees thought it should be.
Todd Bentley is not Jesus. He is just a man. Is Todd anointed? Maybe. Is he perfect? No. Could God still be choosing to heal people through his ministry? Perhaps.
My conclusion is we probably all say and do things that are not quite perfect, and yet God still chooses to use us! Thank God for that! I am really beginning to appreciate things that offend the Religious Spirit. Jesus did! I think Jesus would have read & appreciated SCL, in general.
I don't think it's wise to use liberal media articles or programs as reliable information in seeking out the truth. Let be cautious that we don't become Unbelieving Believers, and even more careful that we don't allow the Accuser of the Brethren to use us to shoot each other down. Making light of our silly idiosyncrasies is one thing. But when we accuse & criticize each other as Christians, I picture Jesus saying, "Cool It! That's my Bride your talking about!" That's not a pretty picture...i'm just sayin...
the man is a con-artist, and the unwillingness of some of you to look at this critically blows my mind.
ReplyDelete"who are we to judge?"
he is asking people to believe he can perform miraculous acts, but he provides no real evidence. we have every right to demand evidence and every right to label him a crook if he does not provide.
just because he claims to have your god on his side, you are hesitant to judge? we cannot allow anyone to make outlandish claims without backing them up or there would be total chaos in the world.
but i suppose this is the wrong website to talk about requiring evidence before believing things.
I agree with the The Amiable Atheist. (Boy that sounded weird.)
ReplyDeleteHere is a great audio clip about Todd Bentley and the Word of Faith movement. (Fast forward to about 3:50)
The interview is with a guy named Justin Peters. Justin, having cerebral palsy, has experienced the faith healing movement firsthand. And now he has devoted an entire ministry to discerning what is Biblical. If you really believe that what Todd Bentley is doing ok or that it's not our place to judge, I urge you to check out the interview.
Who are we to judge? Whaaaat? Maybe I'm missing something but my Bible has some phrases that pay like Romans 14:10 You then, Why do you judge your brother? Or Why do you look down on your brother? For we all will stand before God's judgement seat. So skip the whole judge not let ye be judged thing and look at it in context. We ALL are going to be judged. We need to have judgment to call a spade a spade. Saying "well I don't judge" is stupid. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If more churches stood up and said it there wouldn't be such confusion. Matthew 15-17 anyone? There's plenty of judgment there.
ReplyDeleteWe should use Christ as the example and measuring stick. Things that fail the smell test are usually rotten. Todd Bentley is a liar at minimum. He promised to give nightline proof and didn't. If he had absolute proof he'd produce it. He doesn't because he's a scam artist. Jesus and the apostiles left no doubt as to what happened when a miracle occured. What did Jesus say when he healed the lepers? Go show yourselves to the priest. If Todd Bentley was anything other than a con artist he would say go show yourself to the doctors but he hasn't and won't because he is a fraud. I am so tired of Christians being too PC to be honest. Stand up grow a spine and maybe then the dirty televangelists would be out of business.
@ Jake:
ReplyDelete"God answers prayers of faith. And faith works by love. If you are not in your love walk with your neighbors, then I don't believe God will answer your prayer" - What is Mt 5:23? Im confused.
And yeah, Everytime I heard the name of Bentley, or see his picture, I have this anger rising up in me, that I can't even explain. True, that's no basis alone for calling him a liar, but alongside with everything I read about him, and my friends' stories who did go to Lakeland to his "healings" - honestly I wish that he would be revealed quickly, whether he is a liar or not.
And yeah, I gotta agree - people DO have a right to question his miracles. Prove it's a miracle. Even then, not all miracles are done by God, in God's name.
Satan can trick people pretty well as well.